SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 6 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: My God , Jerry Jones is an idiot. Unless his master plan is to let Dak walk after another failed/wasted season? It's honestly what I believe is the plan. I mean if Lawrence and his resume is supposedly worth $55M, WTF is Daks agent going to be asking for? Lawrence has shown he can win in the playoffs. Dak needs to get over that hurdle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Wasn’t he on his way to another pretty good season before getting injured? He probably shouldn’t have played through it and looked worse because of it but I don’t think he’s in some downward trajectory. He was on pace to take his team to the playoffs two years in a row before the injury. I think this place way overreacts sometimes. I mean, nobody seems to care about Jalen Hurts contract and he was basically good for one year so far. Should the Eagles dump him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 33 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Lawrence has shown he can win in the playoffs. Dak needs to get over that hurdle. Trevor Lawrence has a passer rating of 72.1 with 505 yards, 5 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in 2 games in the playoffs in his career. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 minute ago, RuskieTitan said: Trevor Lawrence has a passer rating of 72.1 with 505 yards, 5 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in 2 games in the playoffs in his career. Quote the stats all you want. Everyone knows the playoff game against the Chargers was a game of two completely different halves. After a horrific start, Lawrence displayed a level of composure that very few quarterbacks could have shown in the second half of that game. The overwhelming majority of them would have just packed it in for the season at halftime. Coming back for the win showed a Montana/Brady level of cool, IMO, and THAT is why you don't pay him based solely on stats. Do you think guys like Dak or Cousins could have come back in the second half and won that playoff game? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 2 hours ago, squire12 said: Which QB ate you referring to? The 1 that a team traded away for an older QB. Thst had to attached a pick onto the deal to get to happen. Or the QB that was traded for a couple of 2nd round picks, was in competition with Sam Darnold to be a starter. Then went to another team for part of a season, hits FA and the best deal they could get was a 1 year $4M contract. Seems like the league set the value on that QB and those the next contract was reflective of that. I’m referring to Baker Mayfield getting $33M/yr in 2024 after getting to the postseason and putting up a better season than Lawrence, and Jared Goff receiving $53M/yr in 2024 after getting to the postseason and putting up a better season than Lawrence. Supposedly $55M is the new average QB price, when QBs who outplayed Lawrence just signed for less. The excuse was age, which doesn’t really jive for QBs that are 29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 4 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Quote the stats all you want. Everyone knows the playoff game against the Chargers was a game of two completely different halves. After a horrific start, Lawrence displayed a level of composure that very few quarterbacks could have shown in the second half of that game. The overwhelming majority of them would have just packed it in for the season at halftime. Coming back for the win showed a Montana/Brady level of cool, IMO, and THAT is why you don't pay him based solely on stats. Do you think guys like Dak or Cousins could have come back in the second half and won that playoff game? So is him being a former #1 pick the reason you're ready to crown him after one half of playoff football? That this is the expectation going forward, and not an exception? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 4 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said: So is him being a former #1 pick the reason you're ready to crown him after one half of playoff football? That this is the expectation going forward, and not an exception? Yes, it would be my expectation that he will be good in the future, so I'd be willing to crown him as the franchise quarterback for my team for the next decade. For that reason, I would be willing to pay him with the expectation that he will earn that kind of money. That's the way I look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 12 minutes ago, Soko said: I’m referring to Baker Mayfield getting $33M/yr in 2024 after getting to the postseason and putting up a better season than Lawrence, and Jared Goff receiving $53M/yr in 2024 after getting to the postseason and putting up a better season than Lawrence. Supposedly $55M is the new average QB price, when QBs who outplayed Lawrence just signed for less. The excuse was age, which doesn’t really jive for QBs that are 29. If you were starting a team, and you could have any one of those three quarterbacks for the face of your franchise over the life of the contract, which one would you pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, MWil23 said: I see him right now and he’s Vinny Testeverde. Incredible physical tools, clearly a 10+ year starter, and yet a propensity to turn it over at a rather alarming rate. It’s not to say I think he’s bad or that he won’t reach that potential, but up to this point he’s been average, and his metrics against good teams show a disparity, especially for a player who plays in a relatively bad division. Based on how he's played, I'm fairly confident he'll put together a top 5 season when his supporting cast is good. His OL has been horrendous. Utterly terrible. And I also like that the kid bounces back from adversity between Urban and the injuries and the generally crappy situation they've stuck him in. Clearly there's enough give-a-**** there that he'll figure out the leadership side of things. 33 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Quote the stats all you want. Everyone knows the playoff game against the Chargers was a game of two completely different halves. After a horrific start, Lawrence displayed a level of composure that very few quarterbacks could have shown in the second half of that game. This, right here. Ever QB I've seen who shows that level of comfort has figured out the job and performed well eventually. When guys stink, there's a sense you get watching them that everything is too fast for them, and I don't think I've seen that with Lawrence once even when he's played poorly or turned the ball over. (As much as I hate to say it, this also applies to Jordan Love.) Edited June 14 by ramssuperbowl99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 A lot of AAV floating around. But how about this one: Mayfield: $50MM GTD, $40MM Fully GTD, 50% of contract GTD, 40% of contract fully GTD. Goff: $170MM GTD, $113.6MM Fully GTD, 80% of contract GTD, 54% of contract fully GTD. Lawrence: $200MM GTD, $142MM Fullt GTD, 73% of contract GTD, 51% of contract fully GTD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Lawrence has shown he can win in the playoffs. Dak needs to get over that hurdle. Hasn’t Dak won twice as many playoff games as Trevor? 54 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: If you were starting a team, and you could have any one of those three quarterbacks for the face of your franchise over the life of the contract, which one would you pick? At what cost? I don’t think most normal people are going to argue that they want Goff or Baker for the future at the same cost (Idk I might but I’m also a moron). But for their respective costs? I do like @squire12s take about the % of cap matching other big contracts, but I also really like @Sokos point that we were comparing him to guys coming off elite years (Hurts and Lamar) I think at 45 a year everyone would be praising this move, even me begrudgingly. Could still certainly go well, but it’s a bit concerning imo to give a significant % of the cap to a guy who has been plagued by lack of support. Edited June 14 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 18 minutes ago, Soggust said: Hasn’t Dak won twice as many playoff games as Trevor? At what cost? I don’t think most normal people are going to argue that they want Goff or Baker for the future at the same cost (Idk I might but I’m also a moron). But for their respective costs? I do like @squire12s take about the % of cap matching other big contracts, but I also really like @Sokos point that we were comparing him to guys coming off elite years (Hurts and Lamar) I think at 45 a year everyone would be praising this move, even me begrudgingly. Could still certainly go well, but it’s a bit concerning imo to give a significant % of the cap to a guy who has been plagued by lack of support. I think 45-47 is what his current market value should be based off of cap percentages and his performance to this point. Player "Prime" Passer Rating % of cap when signed Joe Burrow 104.2 24.47% Josh Allen 107.2 23.56% Justin Herbert 96.2 23.35% Lamar Jackson 98.1 23.13% Patrick Mahomes 110.0 22.70% Jalen Hurts 101.5 22.69% Kyler Murray 97.2 22.14% DeShaun Watson 104.5 22.09% Dak Prescott 97.3 21.92% Trevor Lawrence 91.9 21.53% Jared Goff 98.3 20.75% Matthew Stafford 101.1 19.21% Daniel Jones 92.5 17.79% Kirk Cousins 101.2 17.62% Derek Carr 95.2 16.68% I just rung this up this morning and debated whether or not to post it, because frankly, it's not scientific. But I tried to go through and get the stats of the years where the players really earned their contracts. It's very fluctuating and situational, tried to realistically high ball most guys, I suppose you could futher stretch Trevor's and remove the last month and change of 2023 to try and further highball him. You can probably do that with everyone though to some degree I imagine. But that said, this contract is FAR more speculative, whereas most of the other top paid QBs tended to earn their money with results on the field. To clarify before anyone asks, I was trying to use the years of someones career where they really hit their stride leading up to their deal, or where they... re-established themselves after going through a lull for some of the older guys on the list. A couple examples, Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts were both respectively just the year before they signed. Jared Goff was year 2 and 3 of his Detroit career. Dak Prescott on the other hand was the entirety of his career leading up to his deal because while yeah he had a down year in year 2, he had a great rookie year and had been established. Daniel Jones was just 2022. Trevor Lawrence was 2022/2023 as a whole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 3 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said: His numbers are identical to Blake Bortles first 3-4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 10 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said: I mean, he did get stuck with Urban Meyer his first year. Had a very good sophomore season and was on his way to having a pretty good third season and then got hurt. I do think context matters. Also, would you take Daniel Jones over Trevor Lawrence? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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