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Frankie2Gunz

Frankie2Gunz

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is such a nonsense argument.

~50% of first round picks bust. So what is really considered "value". You're saying Bowers needs to put up HOF level numbers to be good value as the #13 overall pick, which is just asinine.

If Bowers averaged 540/4 for 8-10 years in your example, that's a hell of a lot of "value" vs. selecting a prospect who busts or doesn't earn a second contract.  

In your Vernon Davis example, who provided more value? Davis with his 15 year career at pick 6 or Michael Huff at pick 7?

Now - before you cherry pick the 2006 NFL draft in hindsight, the point is the draft is a crapshoot, ~50% of players selected in round 1 bust. Saying a TE has to put up HOF numbers to be good "value" when ~50% of the picks will be quickly washed out of the league is again, nonsense. 

 

Value is based on positional production and for how long that player produces at a high level over the length of their career  You do realize that value and success has to be quantifiable which is based on player production.  How is this not obvious?

Here we go, another homer who is condoning mediocrity from top 15 pick just as long as he's not a bust.  Being a Raider fan over the last 25 years has been brutal but now we have fans who are happy with top 15 picks being average, just as long as they dont bust.  Got it...   

I expect top 15 draft picks to be elite players especially if you draft one at a position like TE, a position that has shown to be terrible value within the top 15 picks for decades and a position that is not valuable according to NFL GM's especially when you consider positional value for other areas of need on this team (QB, CB, OT). 

If a GM can't do his job by picking elite studs within the top 15 picks they need to be fired.  It's that simple.  Mediocrity can be found in the 3rd and 4th rounds but when selecting a player within the first 15 picks in a draft those players should be expected to be studs. 

Both Davis and Huff were busts.  Neither were good value. I'm not sure what your point is.  

You claim if Bowers averages 540/4 that is a "hell of a lot of value".  You must be kidding me.  That type of TE production can be obtained much later in the draft or via free agency on a YOY basis.  That is average at best production and you would be pleased with a top 15 pick producing at an average at best level. Unbelievable.   

Since 1997 how many QB's have posed good value within the first 15 picks, how any CB's, how many OT's?  I assure you it is a number greater than ZERO.  QB, CB, Ot were all positions of need for us and we selected a TE when we already had a 2nd rounder on the roster from last year.  Let me clue you into something, since 1997 ZERO TE's picked within the top 15 picks has posed good value.  ZERO... 

You claim Bowers is not a TE, so what is he and what other player in the NFL are you comparing him to?  Or are you claiming he is a unicorn, will revolutionize the position and do something that no other player in NFL history has done? Are you claiming he is going to line up at RB and split out wide or in the slot and how often?  If your claim is that he will be lining up outside or in the slot more than at TE, if so then should his production be quantified in line with WR's or TE's or should he be considered in his own unicorn category/tier?  Are you claiming he will line up in the backfield as often as someone like Deebo?  I am not sure what you're claiming when you say that people don't understand who he is as an NFL player and he shouldn't be tossed into the TE bucket.  Care to elaborate? 

Also what are your expectations in terms pf production for Bowers over his 1st year and what do you expect him to average at year 5 to be considered to be a good value pick?  Receptions, Rushing yards, Receiving yards, TD's?  

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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Frankie2Gunz

Frankie2Gunz

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3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Bowers could put up 1200 yards and 10 TDs as a rookie and Frankie would still find something negative to say about value of taking a TE 13 overall because George Kittle was drafted in round 5. 

If he puts up 1200/10 as a rookie and I would be very pleased.  That would be very good value for a TE at pick 13 as those are HOF numbers...  

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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NCOUGHMAN

NCOUGHMAN

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15 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Bowers wasn't a top 10 pick. Totally agree about the QB. I have zero doubt Bowers will answer consistently. He will be the #1 pass option in the offense when Adams vacates. Now they need to find a QB who can get him the ball consistently. 

I know mid to late guys get some slack Imo. 13 imo is mid first round material. Bowers def wasn’t my first choice cause Imo te’s need qbs to produce so I don’t like te’s in the first compared to like for example de’s like Dallas turner. Turner you just turn him loose his position doesn’t really depend on others to succeed like a te. Plus te’s usually don’t produce a lot of stats especially independent stats. As long as he answers when called upon consistently and impressively I’m good. 

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Dessie

Dessie

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On 8/15/2024 at 1:57 AM, bucksavage1 said:

Powers is back thank goodness 

Seen a couple of pictures over the last couple of days and his left elbow is heavily wrapped. Are we sure it was a concussion and not a shoulder/arm injury? 

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NickButera

NickButera

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On 8/14/2024 at 8:41 PM, Frankie2Gunz said:

If he puts up 1200/10 as a rookie and I would be very pleased.  That would be very good value for a TE at pick 13 as those are HOF numbers...  

I agree with your premise. But look at history to get a good gage. Only two rookie TEs in history have ever out up over 1000 yards. Ditka and Pitts. No rookie TE has ever put up 1100 yards. Ever. 

Hall of Fame tight ends develop and come into their own after a few years. Sam Laporta had 860 yards and 9 tds and it's up there as a top 5 all time performance for a rookie TE. 

What you're asking for isn't HOF numbers. It's the best of all time numbers. 

Kelce didn't get 1000 till his 3rd year. And only had double digit tds 3 times in his career. Gronk did it his second year but only had double digit tds 5 times in his career. HOF TE stats aren't HOF wrs stats

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