AP names Gardner Minshew starting QB

[Jeremy408]

For the record I would've picked Brock Bowers over JJ 10 out of 10 times 

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, Geezy said:

i for one, love our CBs. Really liked Jones and Hobbs coming in. Wanted a vet like Stephon Gilmore to man the other side of the field. Then realized they must really like JB, and hes been one of the most improved guys on the roster so far. 

Guys want stability but dont want to see things through. Look at Koonce, didnt do much in years 1 and 2, got a shot then exploded 2nd half of year 3. Sometimes it takes time. I get guys frustration with Wilson, but im hoping it eventually clicks for him like it has for many others before him. 

No koonce sat the bench rookie year played under 48 snaps. Got his chance and got 2 impressive sacks. Not some unblocked lucky stuff. Myself and a few others pounded the table for him then iirc they brought in chandler and again he sat even tho every time he got in the game he flashed and impressed. Had to wait till chandler went awol then he was finally going to get his shot but jmdz drafted Wilson. So again koonce sat until ap became coach. Wilson unlike koonce has been given plenty chances to play. Apples to orange imo. Not to mention koonce showed more in college too.

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

No koonce sat the bench rookie year played under 48 snaps. Got his chance and got 2 impressive sacks. Not some unblocked lucky stuff. Myself and a few others pounded the table for him then iirc they brought in chandler and again he sat even tho every time he got in the game he flashed and impressed. Had to wait till chandler went awol then he was finally going to get his shot but jmdz drafted Wilson. So again koonce sat until ap became coach. Wilson unlike koonce has been given plenty chances to play. Apples to orange imo. Not to mention koonce showed more in college too.

I’m well aware on Koonce situation and I wanted Koonce to play more as much as anyone on here on pass downs. The thing about it is he didn’t play enough to see what he was vs the run. I always knew he had pass rushing chops, it’s easy to see. My thing last year was his ability vs the run is what stood out most. Regardless, he broke out in year 3 given the opportunity.

Just like guys giving up on Bennett soon as he was benched, some guys to spark right away and that’s ok. 
 

Im not saying who Wilson will or won’t be, but guys deserve a chance to become who they are. Ain’t you a coach? You above all else should know some guys need to be developed and Wilson has some God given ability you can’t teach. 
 

The problem with the Raiders is there’s no consistency. Turnover in staffs, lead to the team giving up on young talent before it sprouts. I’m hoping we see things through enough to see a guy like Wilson realize his potential whether I’m be year 2,3 or 4.

[big_palooka]

11 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Ok, Mr. Hyperbole. I'm going to hold you to that. Minnesota's only hole was QB. Noted. No further discussion required. 

Everyone take note, Minnesota's only hole for their entire squad was QB, so exoect them to run away with the division at the very least. 

This is why it's as hard to take you seriously sometimes as it is NYRaider. You'll make broad matter of fact claims that are as ridiculous as they sound. 

Also, who gives a flip about the Rams? They picked, what, 19? That's a far cry from 13. False equivalent, much? 

Overreaction much? Obviously any roster spot can be improved. But their biggest hole was QB and they don't have a lot of holes overall. That fair to say? Rather than be smug about it, what bigger need did they have that QB?

You said, Minnesota has more holes than QB. Okay... but they didn't have a bigger hole than QB. Again, their team is stacked on the Oline, skill positions and their defense is top 5. They were universally seen as the best landing spot for a your QB. There are not a many holes on their roster.

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

8 hours ago, Geezy said:

I’m well aware on Koonce situation and I wanted Koonce to play more as much as anyone on here on pass downs. The thing about it is he didn’t play enough to see what he was vs the run. I always knew he had pass rushing chops, it’s easy to see. My thing last year was his ability vs the run is what stood out most. Regardless, he broke out in year 3 given the opportunity.

Just like guys giving up on Bennett soon as he was benched, some guys to spark right away and that’s ok. 
 

Im not saying who Wilson will or won’t be, but guys deserve a chance to become who they are. Ain’t you a coach? You above all else should know some guys need to be developed and Wilson has some God given ability you can’t teach. 
 

The problem with the Raiders is there’s no consistency. Turnover in staffs, lead to the team giving up on young talent before it sprouts. I’m hoping we see things through enough to see a guy like Wilson realize his potential whether I’m be year 2,3 or 4.

Honestly that why I became a coach cause of the Wilson’s vs koonce’s of the world. Like I say I rather have a player that’s locked in than someone top 10. It looks like koonce wants it more than Wilson and is progressing more than him. As a coach especially coming into a new season I wanna see you show me what you worked on off season. It’s only so much practice time so most growth happens outside of practice. I’m not gonna force feed Wilson snaps when he hasn’t earned it. Ima play koonce and hope that lights a fire under Wilson if not then maybe football not his game. Wilson looks like he didn’t work on anything this off-season and just showed up. Koonce always from year to year improved and it showed on his limited tape. Most top 10 players don’t get till year 3-4 to show something because that’s project territory stuff and projects don’t get drafted top 10.
 

Fwiw That koonce type kid ended up getting a d3 scholarship worked his a$$ off to transfer d1 sr year and I just watched him play vs Wisconsin and started. Every time we talk he thanks me for giving him a shot and I always tell him it was easy cause he earned it while the Wilson type kid is a security guard now.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Overreaction much? Obviously any roster spot can be improved. But their biggest hole was QB and they don't have a lot of holes overall. That fair to say? Rather than be smug about it, what bigger need did they have that QB?

You said, Minnesota has more holes than QB. Okay... but they didn't have a bigger hole than QB. Again, their team is stacked on the Oline, skill positions and their defense is top 5. They were universally seen as the best landing spot for a your QB. There are not a many holes on their roster.

 

No, Minnesota's only hole was QB. That's it. End of story. You said it, not me. You want to play the hyperbole game with everything, I'll play. 

Minnesota's absolute only hole was QB. They would have given up their entire draft class + Justin Jefferson + their 2025 and 2026 classes for JJ. These are commonly known facts 

You pulled this same kind of disingenuous rhetorical bs with McDaniels and Zeigler too, making these rigid as hell, wildly inaccurate claims and refusing to even consider you might be wrong while trying to dunk on other people for doing just that. Stop being a hypocrite dude. Just because you slide some comments in here and there about how you're just trying to be unbiased and not a homer and so objective doesn't mean you are. Just because you'll answer with some high brow "I don't really care about convincing people on the internet, I'm so cool" retort doesn't make it true. 

You said something dumb and now you wanna play NYRaider3000 and try to move the goalposts. Nah dude, you had the chance to avoid saying something dumb, but you did because you wanted it to be a final nail in the coffin and to be considered "right". So Minnesota's only hole was QB. Not their biggest hole. Not their most important hole. Their only single hole. You wanna keyboard bully Frankie, let's dance- detail precisely why Minnesota's only hole is QB, and don't puss out on it. Tell me exactly why none of the other 23 starting positions including K and P were so rock solid that they wouldn't be considered holes. I'll wait. 

[ronjon1990]

9 hours ago, Geezy said:

The problem with the Raiders is there’s no consistency. Turnover in staffs, lead to the team giving up on young talent before it sprouts. I’m hoping we see things through enough to see a guy like Wilson realize his potential whether I’m be year 2,3 or 4.

Devils advocate- Maybe we do have consistency, it's just consistently making poor choices? 

It would be great if Wilson rounded out, but we gotta consider what he brings to the table beyond the hope he reaches whatever potential he was claimed to have had. So far, between injuries and ineffective play, we haven't. When you only have a set number of roster spots for 22 starters on offense and defense, you really can't afford to hang onto project guys all that long when better options "now" are staring at you. 

In Wilson's defense, our coaching staff should have had him playing every single snap in the preseason though. That's on them. He's not getting better via workouts or practice drills, so the only way to determine whether he's making real, game translatable progress is for him to play. 

[Geezy]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Honestly that why I became a coach cause of the Wilson’s vs koonce’s of the world. Like I say I rather have a player that’s locked in than someone top 10. It looks like koonce wants it more than Wilson and is progressing more than him. As a coach especially coming into a new season I wanna see you show me what you worked on off season. It’s only so much practice time so most growth happens outside of practice. I’m not gonna force feed Wilson snaps when he hasn’t earned it. Ima play koonce and hope that lights a fire under Wilson if not then maybe football not his game. Wilson looks like he didn’t work on anything this off-season and just showed up. Koonce always from year to year improved and it showed on his limited tape. Most top 10 players don’t get till year 3-4 to show something because that’s project territory stuff and projects don’t get drafted top 10.
 

Fwiw That koonce type kid ended up getting a d3 scholarship worked his a$$ off to transfer d1 sr year and I just watched him play vs Wisconsin and started. Every time we talk he thanks me for giving him a shot and I always tell him it was easy cause he earned it while the Wilson type kid is a security guard now.

Projects with huge upside get drafted top 10 all the time. It’s up to the staff to mold that ball of clay. Koonce was also given time to develop and grow into an NFL players. Not tossed into the fire coming off an injury because Jones went crazy. Should Koonce have played earlier? Absolutely. Was he the player he was in year 1 and 2 that he was in year 3? I’m not so sure. I’m just saying it’s ok to give kids time. Good teams are afforded that luxury because high picks can sit and aren’t expected to produce out the gate. Wilson had to start week 1 with no offseason. 

Edited Thursday at 02:20 PM by Geezy

[Bitty 2.0]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Overreaction much? Obviously any roster spot can be improved. But their biggest hole was QB and they don't have a lot of holes overall. That fair to say? Rather than be smug about it, what bigger need did they have that QB?

You said, Minnesota has more holes than QB. Okay... but they didn't have a bigger hole than QB. Again, their team is stacked on the Oline, skill positions and their defense is top 5. They were universally seen as the best landing spot for a your QB. There are not a many holes on their roster.

 

Their division sucks, we got Herbert and Mahomes both will probably be in the Hall of Fame.

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

No, Minnesota's only hole was QB. That's it. End of story. You said it, not me. You want to play the hyperbole game with everything, I'll play. 

Minnesota's absolute only hole was QB. They would have given up their entire draft class + Justin Jefferson + their 2025 and 2026 classes for JJ. These are commonly known facts 

You pulled this same kind of disingenuous rhetorical bs with McDaniels and Zeigler too, making these rigid as hell, wildly inaccurate claims and refusing to even consider you might be wrong while trying to dunk on other people for doing just that. Stop being a hypocrite dude. Just because you slide some comments in here and there about how you're just trying to be unbiased and not a homer and so objective doesn't mean you are. Just because you'll answer with some high brow "I don't really care about convincing people on the internet, I'm so cool" retort doesn't make it true. 

You said something dumb and now you wanna play NYRaider3000 and try to move the goalposts. Nah dude, you had the chance to avoid saying something dumb, but you did because you wanted it to be a final nail in the coffin and to be considered "right". So Minnesota's only hole was QB. Not their biggest hole. Not their most important hole. Their only single hole. You wanna keyboard bully Frankie, let's dance- detail precisely why Minnesota's only hole is QB, and don't puss out on it. Tell me exactly why none of the other 23 starting positions including K and P were so rock solid that they wouldn't be considered holes. I'll wait. 

Find me someone who doesn't agree that their only major hole was at QB. 

Like what are you going off about. The whole point was, it's highly unlikely given what we know that the Minnesota vikings would not have outbid the Raiders for the right to select McCarthy. 

[ronjon1990]

29 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Find me someone who doesn't agree that their only major hole was at QB. 

Like what are you going off about. The whole point was, it's highly unlikely given what we know that the Minnesota vikings would not have outbid the Raiders for the right to select McCarthy. 

No, no, not major hole. Only hole. Don't move the goalposts. 

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Their division sucks, we got Herbert and Mahomes both will probably be in the Hall of Fame.

I hope Herbert doesn't make the HOF.  That would require insane stats or a SB or two. Another 10-15 years of mediocre seasons by the Raiders.

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, Geezy said:

Projects with huge upside get drafted top 10 all the time. It’s up to the staff to mold that ball of clay. Koonce was also given time to develop and grow into an NFL players. Not tossed into the fire coming off an injury because Jones went crazy. Should Koonce have played earlier? Absolutely. Was he the player he was in year 1 and 2 that he was in year 3? I’m not so sure. I’m just saying it’s ok to give kids time. Good teams are afforded that luxury because high picks can sit and aren’t expected to produce out the gate. Wilson had to start week 1 with no offseason. 

I agree especially especially when they show signs of improvement or even emotion. Seems like we’re waiting on him to figure out if he wants to play football 

[big_palooka]

 

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

No, no, not major hole. Only hole. Don't move the goalposts. 

Dude... give it a rest. What point are you even trying to make? You're trying to create an argument because I said the Vikings had 1 hole. They are currently 2-0 with Darnold. You're not really making a case here that they had a lot of holes. If they did.... where were they?

[NickButera]

21 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Minnesota's only hole was QB. The had/have a top tier defense. A good Oline and bevy of pass catchers including Jefferson who is the top guy in the game. Where were their holes exactly that outweighed QB?

 

21 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I'm going to hold you to that. Minnesota's only hole was QB. Noted. No further discussion required. 

Everyone take note, Minnesota's only hole for their entire squad was QB

Kind of overreacting IMO (opinion as a poster, not a mod). He did add in context in the next sentence that makes it fairly easy to understand his general idea that, "yes their only hole is QB by virtue of the fact that they didn't have many other huge gaping holes" 

As you said, it's hyperbole. Hyperbole is NOT meant to be taken literally. It's meant to get a point across. Which he alludes to pretty clearly. I mean.... what he said made sense to me.