Caleb Williams

[Blackstar12]

31 minutes ago, Epyon said:

The entire Bears offensive line has pretty dramatically regressed this season and is currently the worst unit in the NFL by a pretty substantial margin.  Washington has over double the rushing yardage that Chicago does right now.

Meanwhile the Bears literally couldn't run the ball against the colts, the worst run defense in the league BEFORE they lost their only good DL in Buckner. Literal worst in the NFL vs the rush, THEN lost their best player, and Chicago STILL couldn't rush against them.

 

As for the WR/TE group. Allen has been injured and largely a non factor. Oh wait, he did drop a touchdown in his one game before sitting out injured.  Odunze is a rookie who is starting to put it together, but has as more bad plays, caused ints, and dropped TDs than he does contributions.... DJ Moore SHOULD be getting used more but Waldron is an idiot:

The TE room hasn't changed since last year. Kmet inexplicably was kept out of the gameplan until this past week and is admittedly very good..... Everett couldn't catch a cold and is for some reason running tight end screens (Waldron sucks), and Mercedes Lewis' contributions so far this year are multiple false starts and not blocking as a blocking TE.

 

The running back room involves FA "feature back" that is only 1 yard ahead of our NON SCRAMBLING QB after 3 games (68 total yards for swift), and is averaging an AMAZING 1.8 Yards per carry right now. 

 

Not trying to be rude, since everyone in Chicago had hopes for this roster going into this season as well, but it's catastrophically worse than it looked like it was going to be before the season. 

-We lost any and all ability to run the ball

-Our starting center is routinely getting pancaked by linebackers (that's just this week's clip)

-The next time our OL picks up a blitz or stunt might actually be the first time

-Our QB's average time to throw after the first two games was 2.59 seconds, good for 6th fastest in the entire NFL... Despite this we where still giving up pressures in that window, even when keeping 7 blockers in to handle 4.

-We for some reason are using a 5ft8in 180 lb receiver to block a DE in goal line:

 

-

Caleb hasn't been the problem here..... not by a long shot.

 

Oh, worth pointing out to people glazing Daniels..... Look up their passing charts. One of them is running half field reads all day in order to simplify reads for a rookie QB, with lots of read option, a more dynamic QB run threat, and play action built off a strong running game. Caleb is running a full field read offense with bizarre personnel decisions and playcalling, no running game, injured WR, and as a primarily pocket passer with a non existent pocket. Despite that he is still showing game to game improvement.

Also, fwiw, his character concerns where almost entirely a pre draft media narrative. Guy's been pretty selfless here so far, even going out of his way to give his first TD pass ball to the rookie WR who caught it for his first NFL TD.

Franklin laid him out lol.

[lavar703]

23 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

I think they're putting Coleman as a huge downgrade at LT. He has graded particularly poorly on pff but that's pff so whatever. Big upgrade at C and LG though.

Coleman has been very rough so that's probably accurate. They're doing this weird tackle rotation thing with him and Lucas. Its very obvious when Lucas is off the field. 

[Vladimir L]

2 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie year with a worse completion % than Caleb. Sometimes the excuse is just that they need time and experience.

Please back then you could beat up wr and tackle wr hard over the middle

wheb manning entered it was a different era

 

a 60% passer was great

 

a pro bowl qb would have 3500 yards 24 passing td and 10 int 
 

this was considered great and probowl material 

[Vladimir L]

2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

PFF Ranked Commanders 32nd OL coming into the season.

Sharp Analysis Football Ranked Commanders 27th coming into the season. 

Lineups . com ranked Commanders 24th after two games. 

PFF Ranked the Bears 14th and Sharp Ranked the Bears 12th in OL coming into the season. 

Washington’s OL is mostly a bunch of no name guys who shouldn’t be starting.

Sharp Analysis and PFF know a little more than the common fan. 

Jayden is an extremely high football IQ player and can make a bad OL look decent. I believe the same will be true for Maye. 

I’ve never viewed Caleb the same way and it shows. He panics. Just like the only two good defenses he played last year in Notre Dame and Oregon made him panic and totally embarrassed him. 

JD5 his first game and part of the Giants game was bailing on plays to run but then he got his bell rung and decided to look down field 

[nagahide13]

15 minutes ago, Vladimir L said:

Please back then you could beat up wr and tackle wr hard over the middle

wheb manning entered it was a different era

 

a 60% passer was great

 

a pro bowl qb would have 3500 yards 24 passing td and 10 int 
 

this was considered great and probowl material 

Yeah but I thought we were all just doing numbers without context

[Hunter2_1]

Swift is averaging less than 2 yards per carry.

They MUST sort out their run game 

[Epyon]

edit: Double posted for some reason.

Edited Wednesday at 08:54 AM by Epyon

[Epyon]

6 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

PFF Ranked Commanders 32nd OL coming into the season.

Sharp Analysis Football Ranked Commanders 27th coming into the season. 

Lineups . com ranked Commanders 24th after two games. 

PFF Ranked the Bears 14th and Sharp Ranked the Bears 12th in OL coming into the season. 

Preseason predictions barely matter in the face of actual on field results.... If they did, Miami would have the best offense instead of New Orleans, Minnesota would be winless instead of 3-0, Bengals would be 3-0 instead of 0-3,  and Chicago would have had a mid tier offensive line.   The actual results through 3 games paint a dramatically different picture.  Chicago couldn't convert 1st and goal from the 1, with 4 tries, against the worst ranked run defense in the NFL, who was missing their only good player.

Here's a picture of it in meme form:

Again, that is THE WORST RUN DEFENSE IN THE NFL, WHO THEN IS ALSO MISSING THEIR BEST PLAYER, STILL Getting 5 player penetration on a goal line play where at least 4 linemen missed their blocks and ate dirt.

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 AM by Epyon

[Hunter2_1]

That particular play was very predictable. You can tell they knew exactly what was coming and absolutely dug in 

[El Ramster]

10 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie year with a worse completion % than Caleb. Sometimes the excuse is just that they need time and experience.

Or Ryan leaf, Tim Couch, Baker Mayfield, Trevor Lawrence, Bryce Young, Jamarcus Russel. See! Manning was a once in lifetime QB. They’ll never be another manning. He was his own coach, development and Guru. There’s no one like Manning. Guy was a legit 1-1. Carried multiple crappy colts teams to 11+ wins every year. 
 

I get what you mean give him time. Yada yada. When people ask me how as Caleb was in USC. 
 

 

dudes so bad he makes his OC shake in fear. 
 

 

My man is legit having a seizure in the sideline when he’s calling those plays in. Doesn’t know if it’s going to be a fumble, int or a loss… When the hell was the last time you saw a coach shake in his timbers? 
 

Sunday it’s going down. Either I eat so much crow I turn into a lions fan and run away. Or I keep snapping on lil bro. 
 

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

That particular play was very predictable. You can tell they knew exactly what was coming and absolutely dug in 

The thing is, though, the predictability is OC Waldron.

There's very little argument that the CHI OL is terrible.  By every metric and eye test, they're literally bottom 3, if not the worst.   They are 32nd in DVOA in adjusted line yards.   And it matches the eye test.

For all of their problems, as a contrast, CAR's OL is very good - which made the whole Bryce Young picture look a lot bleaker.   CAR is 10th, as an example.

Where metrics go wrong with OL play is in sack% - because QB's influence this a ton.   CHI is stil bottom 10, but I recognize how a QB holds on to the ball, or doesn't make the quick read, influences this.   OL play obv contributes, but it's only part of the picture.   They do a better job of measuring individual OL play, but not as a unit in this regard.

 

I will also say this - Kliff Kingsbury has a lot of flaws as an OC.   He's pretty predictable, and he doesn't believe in presnap motion, or moving the WR's around...at all.    So over time, D's can really figure out how best to counter his O.   If you don't go vertical with his O, or have a mobile QB that can get guys out of their spots, it becomes even more predictable.     Shane Waldron is very similar in the lack of creativity, and not adopting pre-snap motion, and keeping the WR's static.    I will give KK credit in that he's calling up plays where he's making it simple for Daniels to make 1-2 reads, and then just take off, in Wks 1-2.    WK3 was the first time we saw Daniels willing to wait, and throw it deeper downfield (not talking the 2 Mclaurin shots, those were 1st reads IIRC, but a few other times).  So far, it's been take off and run in WK1-2.     Daniels' play IMO gets an uptick in evaluation when you account for KK's predictability and lack of creativity (but KK is giving him the right 2nd read so far - run if it's not there; it just will need to be more as D's adjust to spy on his run ability).

The thing I like when I see Jalen Daniels play, is that he's now starting to use the entire field.   In WK1-2, it was just the short area, or run.  I still want to see him go down a LOT sooner (unless it's to get past the sticks, don't put your body at risk).    CIN's D is so bad, so I'd be careful in overreacting, and I do want to see the read progression and willingness to throw downfield as the 2nd-3rd reads (it's not the arm talent, it's the read ability and willingness to go off-script), instead of always running.     But at 3 games, I'm certainly not going to ding him for that, and he can only beat the guys in front of him.

The thing I like when I see Caleb Williams play so far - he's reading the D's pressure, and he's throwing the ball away a lot when nothing's there.   He's still eyes up when he starts to move.   His reads are getting faster each game.   He also doesn't break down in his approach as the game progresses with facing more & more pressure.    He's also made ridiculously good-to-great throws now at least 2-3x 2 games ago vs. HOU, and about 4-5x vs. IND, to throw guys open or thread the needle in crazy spots.    Now yes, he's turned it over trying to make the hero throw, so that's an issue.      But facing the kind of pressure he has, unlike Bryce Young, he's not eyes down, and losing his abilty to throw when he scrambles.    You see the arm talent, and the skills he did show as strengths.     Unless you keep making the same mistakes over & over with no signs of learning (cough *Will Levis* cough), the mistakes Williams have made, are far more fixable than lack of arm talent / read ability. 

 

Again, when I see both Daniels & Williams play, I see guys who are really progressing and advanced for rookies nowadays.    I'd sleep easy if I had either guy (but I would be a little more worried about Daniels' injury risk the way he puts it at risk - hopefully he gets that cleaned up ASAP).   IMO both will be fine if they avoid injury.   It doesn't have to be binary here, as I said before, this isn't a Young / Stroud situation.    From a development perspective, there's stuff to work on for sure, but it's so far, so good on both counts IMO.

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:02 PM by Broncofan

[El Ramster]

6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The thing is, though, the predictability is OC Waldron.

There's very little argument that the CHI OL is terrible.  By every metric and eye test, they're literally bottom 3, if not the worst.   They are 32nd in DVOA in adjusted line yards.   And it matches the eye test.

For all of their problems, as a contrast, CAR's OL is very good - which made the whole Bryce Young picture look a lot bleaker.   CAR is 10th, as an example.

Where metrics go wrong with OL play is in sack% - because QB's influence this a ton.   CHI is stil bottom 10, but I recognize how a QB holds on to the ball, or doesn't make the quick read, influences this.   OL play obv contributes, but it's only part of the picture.   They do a better job of measuring individual OL play, but not as a unit in this regard.

 

I will also say this - Kliff Kingsbury has a lot of flaws as an OC.   He's pretty predictable, and he doesn't believe in presnap motion, or moving the WR's around...at all.    So over time, D's can really figure out how best to counter his O.   If you don't go vertical with his O, or have a mobile QB that can get guys out of their spots, it becomes even more predictable.     Shane Waldron is very similar in the lack of creativity, and not adopting pre-snap motion, and keeping the WR's static.    I will give KK credit in that he's calling up plays where he's making it simple for Daniels to make 1-2 reads, and then just take off, in Wks 1-2.    WK3 was the first time we saw Daniels willing to wait, and throw it deeper downfield (not talking the 2 Mclaurin shots, those were 1st reads IIRC, but a few other times).  So far, it's been take off and run in WK1-2.   

The thing I like when I see Jalen Daniels play, is that he's now starting to use the entire field.   In WK1-2, it was just the short area, or run.  I still want to see him go down a LOT sooner (unless it's to get past the sticks, don't put your body at risk).    CIN's D is so bad, I do want to see the read progression and willingness to throw downfield as the 2nd-3rd reads (it's not the arm talent, it's the read ability and willingness to go off-script), instead of always running.     But at 3 games, I'm certainly not going to ding him for that.  

The thing I like when I see Caleb Williams play so far - he's reading the D's pressure, and he's throwing the ball away a lot when nothing's there.   He's still eyes up when he starts to move.   His reads are getting faster each game.   He's also made ridiculously good throws now at least 2-3x 2 games ago vs. HOU, and about 4-5x vs. IND   And yes, he's turned it over trying to make the hero throw, so that's an issue.      But facing the kind of pressure he has, unlike Bryce Young, he's not eyes down, and losing his abilty to throw when he scrambles.    You see the arm talent, and the skills he did show as strengths.  

Again, when I see both Daniels & Williams play, I see guys who are really progressing and advanced for rookies nowadays.    I'd sleep easy if I had either guy (but I would be a little more worried about Daniels' injury risk the way he puts it at risk - hopefully he gets that cleaned up ASAP).   IMO both will be fine if they avoid injury.   It doesn't have to be binary here, as I said before, this isn't a Young / Stroud situation.    From a development perspective, there's stuff to work on for sure, but it's so far, so good on both counts IMO.

 

KK has always been a great first half of the season. What you said about the lack of motion and predictability is what bites him. His cards will always crash and burn because teams would figure out his scheme. As for Waldron, it’s weird because he comes from the McVay tree. But he didn’t run much motion in Seattle. He runs more of a power run scheme which is again weird. Not even sure if it’s power, but more of a jumbo set. He doesn’t use 11’much. Seattle used it very little. Again, he goes away from whatever he learned from McVay. He’s closer to Shannys scheme. 
 

Problem is that Chicago swung and missed for Saquaon and landed swift. They’re not using him where he’s at his best!!!! Space/open field. They’re running him into 3 linemen. The whole scheme simply does not fit what they need. I would be running a legit west coast offense, quick hitters, quick screens. They have these long developing plays that turn into nothing. Teams aren’t scared of the run or pass. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:04 PM by El Ramster

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, El Ramster said:

KK has always been a great first half of the season. What you said about the lack of motion and predictability is what bites him. His cards will always crash and burn because teams would figure out his scheme. As for Waldron, it’s weird because he comes from the McVay tree. But he didn’t run much motion in Seattle. He runs more of a power run scheme which is again weird. Not even sure if it’s power, but more of a jumbo set. He doesn’t use 11’much. Seattle used it very little. Again, he goes away from whatever he learned from McVay. He’s closer to Shannys scheme. 
 

Problem is that Chicago swung and missed for Saquaon and landed swift. They’re not using him where he’s at his best!!!! Space/open field. They’re running him into 3 linemen. The whole scheme simply does not fit what they need. I would be running a legit west coast offense, quick hitters, quick screens. They have these long developing plays that turn into nothing. Teams aren’t scared of the run or pass. 

Swift is truly awful.  He's a 3rd down threat in space, like you said.  I would expect Roschon Johnson will take over.   Regardless, though - the CHI OL is horrible.   It's literally league-worst by some metrics (I referenced DVOA, but others concur) - and the eye test confirms this as well.   That's the part that was unexpected.

As good as Odunze looks, if CHI goes T Fashanu instead of Odunze at 1.9 (and instead of T at 3.9, they go with any WR available - Jalen McMillan, Jerome Burton or Roman Wilson), their O would be far more functional.     As it is, they probably just need to go R1 & at least 1 of R2-R3 on OL, and then upgrade a 3rd spot in FA.    Until then, it's going to be rough.   The only blessing the O has is that the D is really great (but it can wear down to the run over time, ideally they're protecting a lead, and then the pass rush and ball hawk secondary takes advantage).   That's a big difference to most 1.1 teams.    The problem is that their biggest weakness affects QB play the most.  In that context, I'm actually impressed with Caleb Williams' play so far.    Most rookies would look supremely awful on film, esp in the read progression, eyes-up, ability to make hero-level throws vs pressure, and their performance as the game progresses.   Williams' week 1 was brutal to watch, but WK2-3, I came away impressed.   That's why I'm not really worried about him, barring injury.   You can see why he went 1.1.    If I'm a Bears fan, I don't worry about Caleb Williams, I just want that OL upgraded, and OC Waldron a one-and-done.

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Swift is truly awful.  He's a 3rd down threat in space, like you said.  I would expect Roschon Johnson will take over.   Regardless, though - the CHI OL is horrible.   It's literally league-worst by some metrics (I referenced DVOA, but others concur) - and the eye test confirms this as well.   That's the part that was unexpected.

As good as Odunze looks, if CHI goes T Fashanu instead of Odunze at 1.9 (and instead of T at 3.9, they go with any WR available - Jalen McMillan, Jerome Burton or Roman Wilson), their O would be far more functional.     As it is, they probably just need to go R1 & at least 1 of R2-R3 on OL, and then upgrade a 3rd spot in FA.    Until then, it's going to be rough.   The only blessing the O has is that the D is really great (but it can wear down to the run over time, ideally they're protecting a lead, and then the pass rush and ball hawk secondary takes advantage).   That's a big difference to most 1.1 teams.    The problem is that their biggest weakness affects QB play the most.  In that context, I'm actually impressed with Caleb Williams' play so far.    Most rookies would look supremely awful on film, esp in the read progression, eyes-up, ability to make hero-level throws vs pressure, and their performance as the game progresses.   Williams' week 1 was brutal to watch, but WK2-3, I came away impressed.   That's why I'm not really worried about him, barring injury.   You can see why he went 1.1.    If I'm a Bears fan, I don't worry about Caleb Williams, I just want that OL upgraded, and OC Waldron a one-and-done.

Right and you’re correct. Problem is, another HC another OC and that can snowball into something disgusting. I don’t think Caleb is a cerebral QB. He’s missed easy throws and check downs. Don’t get me wrong he’s talented! And I’m just talking smack about the dude. He’s real sassy, but it’s his demeanor that I don’t like. He thinks he’s better than what he really is. I’m all for confidence, but I’m into humility and acceptance. Seems like every week he’s making the same mistake. Sadly, I didn’t see his game vs the colts. I’ve seen every AR5 game this year minus that one. I over slept and worked up twisted. I was sad by my parlays, everything missed. I kept trying to force myself to go back 24 hours, drive to Vegas and place 5,000$ on 

 

Broncos, rams, Wash,eagles,  GB, Panthers, Giants, Ravens and Bills spread. 
 

Sadly I ended up in FF. This week though! Ima have my eye on what color his nails are. Rams have a terrible defense. We are getting lit up like a Christmas tree. Dog water Juan just had a Randy moss stat line on us. We can’t rush the passer. Purdy was in the pocket all day with legit 10+’seconds to throw. 
 

my body is so ready for Sunday. I’m ready for a blood bath. I hope Caleb becomes a great QB. Chicago deserves it. Heck their defense deserves it. Those guys are unreal, I love the way they play. They left me super impressed vs the Texans.

[HTTRDynasty]

I mean…