NFL Week 6 General Discussion

[General Tso]

1 hour ago, CP3MVP said:

Because he’s had 4 nice games?

People acting like bad or mediocre QBs can’t have nice months lol. Ryan Fitzpatrick built a career of this.

Alright I'll give another example.

Baker Mayfield - ruined, or didn't have it?

[BroncoSojia]

3 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

“Ruining” a QB isn’t a thing. You either have it or you don’t.

I vehemently disagree with this. History has shown that teams can absolutely "ruin" QBs. You can't expect rookie QBs to come in and play well w/o a good enough surrounding infrastructure.  

[Ryan_W]

Green Bay at the bottom

Washington on top

[onejayhawk]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_W said:

Green Bay at the bottom

Washington on top

And KC on a bye

[CP3MVP]

1 hour ago, General Tso said:

Alright I'll give another example.

Baker Mayfield - ruined, or didn't have it?

He doesn’t have it to be a franchise QB. He’s a transitional one 

[CP3MVP]

38 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I vehemently disagree with this. History has shown that teams can absolutely "ruin" QBs. You can't expect rookie QBs to come in and play well w/o a good enough surrounding infrastructure.  

The vast majority of bad Qbs who sucked on their first team sucked everywhere else.

 

Edited Saturday at 06:18 PM by CP3MVP

[General Tso]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

The vast majority of bad Qbs who sucked on their first team sucked everywhere else.

 

So you admit there's exceptions and it's not black and white then

[NudeTayne]

6 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

How much do you think the Browns could get for Ward and Garett? 

It's worth some calls.

[BroncoSojia]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

The vast majority of bad Qbs who sucked on their first team sucked everywhere else.

 

........because of developed bad habits that they couldn't kick due to their surroundings on the first team.

[CP3MVP]

4 hours ago, General Tso said:

So you admit there's exceptions and it's not black and white then

Yeah like you can get struck by lightning but it’s rare. 

[CP3MVP]

4 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

........because of developed bad habits that they couldn't kick due to their surroundings on the first team.

Or they were overrated prospects and certain flaws were glossed over or ignored.
 

For example Jameis Winston was a turnover machine in college, that is what he was in the pros. The Bucs ignored that and were shocked for some reason.

[wackywabbit]

4 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

........because of developed bad habits that they couldn't kick due to their surroundings on the first team.

You are defining a "ruined" QB as one whose first team set them up to pick up bad habits that made them develop into an irredeemable QB who never has a chance to be good.

So how can you possibly have any data points to differentiate a ruined QB from a QB who was never going to be good? If they become good later, they were never "ruined" right?

I am totally against this viewpoint. The operation of an NFL team is too large and expensive to build in stall time for finding out if a potential franchise QB is good. Most of them are never going to be good anyway. Get that data now, to have your best estimate of what you have.

Imagine if the Panthers sat Bryce Young all of last year with their terrible roster to not "ruin" him. Then how much additional time are they waiting to realize they don't have the guy?

Edited Sunday at 01:34 AM by wackywabbit

[BroncoSojia]

9 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

You are defining a "ruined" QB as one whose first team set them up to pick up bad habits that made them develop into an irredeemable QB who never has a chance to be good.

So how can you possibly have any data points to differentiate a ruined QB from a QB who was never going to be good? If they become good later, they were never "ruined" right?

I am totally against this viewpoint. The operation of an NFL team is too large and expensive to build in stall time for finding out if a potential franchise QB is good. Most of them are never going to be good anyway. Get that data now, to have your best estimate of what you have.

Imagine if the Panthers sat Bryce Young all of last year with their terrible roster to not "ruin" him. Then how much additional time are they waiting to realize they don't have the guy?

I never said that every highly drafted QB that's terrible is because of the team they were drafted. I believe players like Zach Wilson, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc were going to be terrible regardless of what team they were drafted to, but there are quite a few players that were ruined by their surroundings when they first got into the league. Players like David Klingler, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Justin Fields, etc may have been much better pros if they came into the league on better rosters with better coaching.

 

[wackywabbit]

42 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I never said that every highly drafted QB that's terrible is because of the team they were drafted.

Where in the post you quoted did this come from?

Also I never said groundhogs are cuter than puppies.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Geno Smith has not thrown more than 1 TD in a game this year, but has one in each game. Projected for 17 on the season (same with INTs), and over 5K passing yards. Would be so odd if that is how it ended up going.

Edited Sunday at 10:47 AM by TecmoSuperJoe