With the 5th pick in the NFL draft the Broncos select....

[1234567]

Just now, jsthomp2007 said:

^^^No way that RB is close to a K?  The is bunk!!  So, TD was as valuable as Jason Elam...don't think so. 

Different league today my friend. Pass first, multi back systems are what make up the majority of offenses nowadays. 

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, champ11 said:

Some good tweets:

 

 

I don't know that this necessarily determines position value in the draft. What it might determine is the amount of cap $$$ you should reasonably allocate to each of these positions when building a roster. Also, if you look at the past few years, the RB position hit it's nadir but has rebounded as the league shifts back to creative use of RBs to create mismatches. Having an elite RB is becoming a bigger part of a team again, and you can see it in team's drafting habits. 

[champ11]

6 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I don't know that this necessarily determines position value in the draft. What it might determine is the amount of cap $$$ you should reasonably allocate to each of these positions when building a roster. Also, if you look at the past few years, the RB position hit it's nadir but has rebounded as the league shifts back to creative use of RBs to create mismatches. Having an elite RB is becoming a bigger part of a team again, and you can see it in team's drafting habits. 

Yeah I mean I think the RB position is definitely making a comeback. That being said, the best RB in the league (Bell) can't secure a long-term deal. The nature of the position is always going to lower the chance of long term deals and big time money. 

I just thought it was an interesting way to look at the draft, I don't think it is a strict guideline but it is interesting to look at how the positions are valued league wide. I thought his point about the guard was the most interesting part. 

[broncofan48]

14 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I don't know that this necessarily determines position value in the draft. What it might determine is the amount of cap $$$ you should reasonably allocate to each of these positions when building a roster. Also, if you look at the past few years, the RB position hit it's nadir but has rebounded as the league shifts back to creative use of RBs to create mismatches. Having an elite RB is becoming a bigger part of a team again, and you can see it in team's drafting habits. 

I think a lot of that is the zig when people zag line of thinking.  As offenses got more pass happy and moved towards quicker and sometimes smaller athletes defenses followed suit.  Now all the high end athletes are on the defensive side of the ball and one of the best ways to offset that is just running over the top of them.  I would love for Denver to beef up the running game, whether that be through Barkley/Wynn or Nelson/Michel either way would be a good way to help make this team relevant very quickly.  I still can't shake the feeling Elway is going to go QB though

[AnAngryAmerican]

15 hours ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

So - for me - I would be thrilled  with any of the 4 QB’s, Barkley, Chubb, or Nelson at 5.  Really excited by any of the. . I have my preferences at QB, but I think they are all worthy of the risk as potential franchise QB, and I Love the 3 positional Players - any one of the 3 will have a huge impact on this team.  The only thing that would disappoint me is a trade down (unless we get an unbelievable haul, which is highly unlikely).  

So, I’m expecting a trade down. ☹️  All sorts of signs starting to come out signaling strong interest in trading down by the Broncos.  I get the allure of more picks in general, and there is a lot of talent in this draft at positions of need.  But this is a unique situation.  A chance for a franchise QB or likely HOF’er.  You just don’t trade those away. 

I would be fine with any of QBs not named Manziel Mayfield and any of the three position players you mention. What has me a little concerned is the recent talk about Denzel Ward, which the King article mentions and it's something that Renck and Klis have been saying here and there over the last week or so. Ward is a nice prospect but I don't see a real game-changer, I see a solid CB, a Bradley Roby type, not someone worthy of a top-5 or even top-10 pick. Elway has taken at least one CB in I think every draft since he's running the show, it's an approach I like because you can't enough good CBs, but the idea of Ward at No. 5 or even after a slight trade back doesn't sit well with me. 

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, champ11 said:

AK, I was reading that Nelson has played strictly at left guard and that it is less valuable than RG? I think 8/10 of the highest paid guards in the NFL are RG's bc it's valued higher. Why is that and does it concern you about Nelson?  At least value wise 

So, the simple version is your RG will face more one on ones with DT's than your LG. Primarily because protection schemes tend to roll support to the blind (left) side. Thats why we put Leary on the right last year. Max is a disaster on that side.

I have no issues with Nelson at either position. He's got the strength, size, lateral mobility and recognition skills to play either side.

Nelson is unlike any guard I've ever seen. Very impressive in all aspects, then you realize he's 6'5" and 330 lbs and he's in a brand new category. As close to can't miss as any Interior lineman I've ever seen.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I would be fine with any of QBs not named Manziel Mayfield and any of the three position players you mention. What has me a little concerned is the recent talk about Denzel Ward, which the King article mentions and it's something that Renck and Klis have been saying here and there over the last week or so. Ward is a nice prospect but I don't see a real game-changer, I see a solid CB, a Bradley Roby type, not someone worthy of a top-5 or even top-10 pick. Elway has taken at least one CB in I think every draft since he's running the show, it's an approach I like because you can't enough good CBs, but the idea of Ward at No. 5 or even after a slight trade back doesn't sit well with me. 

Ward is worth an early pick if he's a classic shutdown, take-one-side-of-the-field away-on-his-own kind of player.  Thing is, I don't know that he is.   He's the best of the pure CB class this year - but I don't know if he's as good as a Marshawn Lattimore, or a Jalen Ramsey.      The gap between Ward and the rest is there, but it's nowhere near the same gap as Lattimore or Ramsey had, and they offered the ability to cover with all types of WR's.  Press coverage, and being boxed out by big WR's are where Ward's not so clearly a do-it-all shutdown guy - and he's been a big liability in run support (you can't expect everyone to be great there if they're great cover guys, but he got mauled in run support).   Those shortcomings are why I don't have him (and other CB's) near the elite level that Barkley/Nelson/Chubb occupy.    To trade down to get Ward IMO would be a need-based thinking approach that's really come back to bite us hard.  I do hope that's not where Elway's thinking.

[AKRNA]

Thought this was a good place to post this article. OG's really can be game changers.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1094541-the-10-best-offensive-guards-in-nfl-history

 

[Ahhlucas]

Word is Elway confidantes Gary Kubiak and Matt Russell love Mayfield.

 

Not that they've been hiding their interest in him very well this offseason.

[jsthomp2007]

4 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Thought this was a good place to post this article. OG's really can be game changers.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1094541-the-10-best-offensive-guards-in-nfl-history

 

No. 9: Joe DeLamielleure?????????

 

Thank you Akrna...just realized how old I am.  

[germ-x]

5 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Ward is worth an early pick if he's a classic shutdown, take-one-side-of-the-field away-on-his-own kind of player.  Thing is, I don't know that he is.   He's the best of the pure CB class this year - but I don't know if he's as good as a Marshawn Lattimore, or a Jalen Ramsey.      The gap between Ward and the rest is there, but it's nowhere near the same gap as Lattimore or Ramsey had, and they offered the ability to cover with all types of WR's.  Press coverage, and being boxed out by big WR's are where Ward's not so clearly a do-it-all shutdown guy - and he's been a big liability in run support (you can't expect everyone to be great there if they're great cover guys, but he got mauled in run support).   Those shortcomings are why I don't have him (and other CB's) near the elite level that Barkley/Nelson/Chubb occupy.    To trade down to get Ward IMO would be a need-based thinking approach that's really come back to bite us hard.  I do hope that's not where Elway's thinking.

Ward isn’t as big as these players.  But from what I’ve seen he’s just as physical.  Obviously being smaller means that he can get overpowered, even if he is tough.  He’s not Trae Wayne’s soft, though.  He will get into WRs physically and is actually an excellent run defender at CB whose unafraid to make a tackle.

Further his looseness and closing speed is a thing of beauty.  He literally never allows separation and makes it look effortless. 

He’s a special player.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, germ-x said:

Ward isn’t as big as these players.  But from what I’ve seen he’s just as physical.  Obviously being smaller means that he can get overpowered, even if he is tough.  He’s not Trae Wayne’s soft, though.  He will get into WRs physically and is actually an excellent run defender at CB whose unafraid to make a tackle.

Further his looseness and closing speed is a thing of beauty.  He literally never allows separation and makes it look effortless. 

He’s a special player.

Cover wise as a mirror I’m with you.  But he does get overpowered due to his size.   And that size allows big body guys to box him out.  

The mirroring skills do give him ballhawk skills that put him at the top of the CB class.  No argument there.  I just can’t put him in the elite tier with Nelson / Barkley / Chubb level because of the above.  

[Broncofan]

Part of me wishes Klis would break who Elway has targeted.   We know he’ll be the first to break it.  Suspense is killing me - it’s rare that there are literally 4-5 viable candidates Elway could be leaning to.   Even last year it was pretty much Bolles & Howard that Elway was linked to once the CMac helium put him past our slot at 1.20.  

Part of the lack of disclosure no doubt is the trade leverage teams are likely applying at the top.   But it’s nuts at 1.5 that we could be legitimately seeing 4-5 different guys.  

[jsthomp2007]

10 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Part of me wishes Klis would break who Elway has targeted.   We know he’ll be the first to break it.  Suspense is killing me - it’s rare that there are literally 4-5 viable candidates Elway could be leaning to.   Even last year it was pretty much Bolles & Howard that Elway was linked to once the CMac helium put him past our slot at 1.20.  

Part of the lack of disclosure no doubt is the trade leverage teams are likely applying at the top.   But it’s nuts at 1.5 that we could be legitimately seeing 4-5 different guys.  

And I think nobody had Von Miller pegged over Marcel Darius...maybe 1 or 2 said it might happen ...but....just sayen.

[germ-x]

3 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

And I think nobody had Von Miller pegged over Marcel Darius...maybe 1 or 2 said it might happen ...but....just sayen.

Patrick Peterson was in that mix as well.  Most thought it was between Dareus and Peterson.

Elway also hasn’t brought any of the top position players in for private workouts, at least as far as it’s been reported.

Interestingly, when Elway took over the job he mentioned the top 4 positions in football were QB, edge rusher, LT, and CB.  IMO, Denver will be looking at one of those 4 positions at #5.  With no LT I think it’s down to one of the QBs, Chubb, and Ward unless they trade back.