Sugashane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Which Goldman are you watching? Eddie Goldman is a shockingly good pass rusher for a 330lbs NT. The one that is gassed in the second half and sporadically getting past the LOS then. That's the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, Sugashane said: He is sporadic with pressure, granted he may just be getting worn out from too many snaps and being 330+. But Hicks is the one getting the attention of the OC/OL and Goldman is often still at the LOS by the time the QBs release the ball. Sometimes his bull rush looks deadly but he is not consistent at it. Sacks are great as far as finishing but at 330+ of course he doesn't have the closing speed. But the number of pressures he logged aren't near as great as some act IMO, especially when looking at how his snap totals have been pretty high for a NT through his tenure in Chicago. Maybe his productivity would go up with less total snaps, he might just be gassed out. Compare his pressure with that of other pure 30 front NT though. Is there one in the league that’s consistently getting to the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Compare his pressure with that of other pure 30 front NT though. Is there one in the league that’s consistently getting to the QB? Not likely, though I can't exactly name off which teams use a pure 30 front today. But that is why when compared to other 330+ NTs I'm not going to be over the moon about his pass rush. He is being compared to a group with a pretty low ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 And I do want to point out I am not for letting Goldman go or trying to bash him. I like him but feel we are getting some homerism frenzy for him. He is a stud in the run game, which is what you want of a 3-4 NT. He also plays too many snaps and needs to get to be subbed out more so he doesn't become a corpse in the 4th. I'm against Vea due to redundancy. I just think Vea is more one dimensional then most do. By all means if we is going to be a dominant pass rusher then sign me up. But I don't want to spend a top 10 pick on a 2 down player, even if it is Ngata, Wilfork, or Hampton. This is why I love MadMike's latest mock, it's added power to the DL will keep Hicks and Goldman fresher, and allow them to collapse the pocket more freqeuntly. Also much like how most of us want a Megatron or Jones for a WR to go top 10, I want a Suh or Donald to go top 10. Positional value just makes it difficult for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: The one that is gassed in the second half and sporadically getting past the LOS then. That's the one. That is a rotation issue. By NFL standards Goldman plays too many snaps and Hicks plays and obscene amount of snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Sacks don’t tell the entire story but Goldman has started 32 games and has 8.5 sacks. He has a 25% sack/start rate. My guess is that crushes most NTs 3-4 or 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB 1 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, WindyCity said: That is a rotation issue. By NFL standards Goldman plays too many snaps and Hicks plays and obscene amount of snaps. Is that a rotational issue because the Bears lack depth though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB 1 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Sacks don’t tell the entire story but Goldman has started 32 games and has 8.5 sacks. He has a 25% sack/start rate. My guess is that crushes most NTs 3-4 or 4-3. Outside of Donald with the Rams that is a good number especially for a 3-4 NT who are there mainly to stop the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB 1 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: And I do want to point out I am not for letting Goldman go or trying to bash him. I like him but feel we are getting some homerism frenzy for him. He is a stud in the run game, which is what you want of a 3-4 NT. He also plays too many snaps and needs to get to be subbed out more so he doesn't become a corpse in the 4th. I'm against Vea due to redundancy. I just think Vea is more one dimensional then most do. By all means if we is going to be a dominant pass rusher then sign me up. But I don't want to spend a top 10 pick on a 2 down player, even if it is Ngata, Wilfork, or Hampton. This is why I love MadMike's latest mock, it's added power to the DL will keep Hicks and Goldman fresher, and allow them to collapse the pocket more freqeuntly. Also much like how most of us want a Megatron or Jones for a WR to go top 10, I want a Suh or Donald to go top 10. Positional value just makes it difficult for me. I think Ngata was the highest pick of those three in the low teens and wilfork and Hampton went in the low 20's. Ngata, Wilfork and Hampton were worthy of a first round pick because in a base 3-4 the defense is worthless without a dominant NT. If you run Lovie's 4-3 1 gap than Suh or Donald would be worthy of a top 10 pick. So it depends on the scheme that makes those players worthy of a high pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, TB 1 said: Is that a rotational issue because the Bears lack depth though. Our backup NT this year, John Jenkins, was only active for 8 games though to my knowledge was never injured. So yeah, I’d say a lack of depth was an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 hours ago, TB 1 said: I think Ngata was the highest pick of those three in the low teens and wilfork and Hampton went in the low 20's. Ngata, Wilfork and Hampton were worthy of a first round pick because in a base 3-4 the defense is worthless without a dominant NT. If you run Lovie's 4-3 1 gap than Suh or Donald would be worthy of a top 10 pick. So it depends on the scheme that makes those players worthy of a high pick. You didn't dispute anything I said, so I'm honestly not sure if you were agreeing or I'm missing something. Being worthy of a first round pick and a top 10 pick are different. I named three of the best NTs and none were worth the top 10 pick. Goldman was a 2nd and does the role very well. Vea is not Suh or Donald IMO (who I said were worth a top 10 pick). , but if he would end up being that level of pass rusher then I'd be happy to eat my words. I do feel Suh has the size/strength to be a dominant NT in a 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomyyo Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Do the results of the playoffs thus far change anyone's thinking about the team's draft needs? I found it interesting that in each of the four games this weekend, power beat speed (although the NE game could be argued as an exception) and the stronger defenses all won. The remaining QBs, outside of Brady, are journeymen at best. With that in mind, should the Bears look to bolster all three levels of the D and the O-line, or look for offensive skill players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, yomyyo said: Do the results of the playoffs thus far change anyone's thinking about the team's draft needs? I found it interesting that in each of the four games this weekend, power beat speed (although the NE game could be argued as an exception) and the stronger defenses all won. The remaining QBs, outside of Brady, are journeymen at best. With that in mind, should the Bears look to bolster all three levels of the D and the O-line, or look for offensive skill players? After all our cuts we are gonna have about $80M in cap room. No reason we can’t do all of those things to at least some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, yomyyo said: Do the results of the playoffs thus far change anyone's thinking about the team's draft needs? I found it interesting that in each of the four games this weekend, power beat speed (although the NE game could be argued as an exception) and the stronger defenses all won. The remaining QBs, outside of Brady, are journeymen at best. With that in mind, should the Bears look to bolster all three levels of the D and the O-line, or look for offensive skill players? Statistically speaking this year is a massive outlier.... Defense is super important obviously, but the better quarterbacks by and large are what win super bowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Epyon said: Statistically speaking this year is a massive outlier.... Defense is super important obviously, but the better quarterbacks by and large are what win super bowls Not to mention the absolute fluke way the vikes ultimately ended up winning. Or that the best d in the nfl gave up 35 points today and only won bc the offense put up 38. As great as the vikes d is an all time great qb came back from a 17-0 deficit and ultimately should have won that game. What Marcus Williams was doing there i have no idea. Wrap him up and keep him in bounds the clock is still running and they are not quite in fg range either. That was one of the worst whiffs i have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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