turf toe Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 hours ago, Mazrimiv said: Can't agree with this. I'm going with the Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Driver, Jones, Finley group from 2011/2012 depending on Watson I think this group could be better, more speed at the top with Watson Reed and Melton, along with possession types with Wicks, Melton, Heath and Doubs, but they still have to continue to prove themselves, we'll see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said: Okay, I'll admit I'm not a doctor or anything but I would think that yoga and stretching probably takes care of most of this problem? flexibility is only a part of the issue. static flexibility that yoga and stretching can improve is not really when the hamstring injuries occur. it is the combination of multiple factors. below are a few conceptual items and their subcomponents length amount of change in length rate of change that the lengthening is occurring force magnitude shortening vs lengthening rate of force application rest of body influence linear movement vs arcing/angling movement torso forwardly directed vs rotated vs side bent vs combination hamstrings attach to pelvic bones, the corresponding forces on the pelvis from other muscles and body positions, body movements impact the forces the hamstring has to generate/withstand/counteract head/neck position whole body nervous system implications on signal transmission to/from the brain and hamstring that is really impossible to measure choreographed movements vs unchoreographed movements planned vs reactionary -- a lot of training is going to be planned (choreographed) movements. unfortunately, football is a 21 other moving pieces that 1 individual has no control over and is always reacting to them *************** to simply state that a player that has hamstring injuries needs to stretch more and imply that those injury issues will be resolved is so far off based in probably 99.9% of the cases. It is a really complex machine that has so many moving parts and systems/subsystems. Edited January 6 by squire12 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I think Watson just needs to stretch more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 It's all about the diet. No man that eats a dozen donuts in the morning with a large intake pizza, bratwurst, burgers and large quantities of beer throughout the rest of the day has ever had hamstring issues. Follow me for more injury prevention tips. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 12 minutes ago, R T said: It's all about the diet. No man that eats a dozen donuts in the morning with a large intake pizza, bratwurst, burgers and large quantities of beer throughout the rest of the day has ever had hamstring issues. Follow me for more injury prevention tips. LOL .. now I know why no hammy injuries for me at 71 .. good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 36 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I think Watson just needs to stretch more. If his end goal is a yoga instructor, i agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 16 hours ago, DWhitehurst said: Fwiw, the one thing that would help Love/passing game is that defense-stretching deep threat. He can be a one-trick pony, provided that is the one trick. (Think MVS). ... Having Watson available really makes a difference, commands attention, frees other guys. But, I don't think a **one-trick pony** MVS is necessary, or that useful? The complexity of defensive capacity, of play-calling and route design, I think you kinda want all your guys to be capable running different routes. If defense doesn't respect other stuff, I'm not sure an MVS commands tons of double-teams; and NFL corners are so fast that even an MVS didn't run away from guys and get wide open very often. I think you need the real threat of doing other things in order to fool corners and sometimes get free deep. Real ball skills and body-control are also important; I don't assume Love is going to be putting throws on the dot. The ability to make contested catches, to fight and shield, to back-shoulder, I think you need a fairly athletic deep-threat guy who can catch some imperfect balls. *IF* just pure speed is the goal, per pre-draft numbers Melton already has pretty excellent 40-speed. Not sure if he'll have the hands, ball skills, and body control to be a threat or to command any double-team. And not sure if he's really as fast as the 40-time suggested, beats me. But if you're just looking for a one-trick fast guy, he may already provide that trick? I'm not sure what routes he's run. But it's interesting that to my recall, Melton has NOT gotten any deep-ball fly-pattern targets? Maybe he's run some and hasn't gotten open or other easier throws opened, I don't know. But it kinda seems like even with his speed, he is already used in more complex ways than one-trick MVS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, R T said: It's all about the diet. No man that eats a dozen donuts in the morning with a large intake pizza, bratwurst, burgers and large quantities of beer throughout the rest of the day has ever had hamstring issues. Follow me for more injury prevention tips. Not leaving the recliner also helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 hours ago, squire12 said: flexibility is only a part of the issue. static flexibility that yoga and stretching can improve is not really when the hamstring injuries occur. it is the combination of multiple factors. below are a few conceptual items and their subcomponents length amount of change in length rate of change that the lengthening is occurring force magnitude shortening vs lengthening rate of force application rest of body influence linear movement vs arcing/angling movement torso forwardly directed vs rotated vs side bent vs combination hamstrings attach to pelvic bones, the corresponding forces on the pelvis from other muscles and body positions, body movements impact the forces the hamstring has to generate/withstand/counteract head/neck position whole body nervous system implications on signal transmission to/from the brain and hamstring that is really impossible to measure choreographed movements vs unchoreographed movements planned vs reactionary -- a lot of training is going to be planned (choreographed) movements. unfortunately, football is a 21 other moving pieces that 1 individual has no control over and is always reacting to them *************** to simply state that a player that has hamstring injuries needs to stretch more and imply that those injury issues will be resolved is so far off based in probably 99.9% of the cases. It is a really complex machine that has so many moving parts and systems/subsystems. Squire, you seem to know a lot about this issue. Do you think this is something that gets worse or weaker the more times you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 3 hours ago, craig said: Having Watson available really makes a difference, commands attention, frees other guys. But, I don't think a **one-trick pony** MVS is necessary, or that useful? The complexity of defensive capacity, of play-calling and route design, I think you kinda want all your guys to be capable running different routes. If defense doesn't respect other stuff, I'm not sure an MVS commands tons of double-teams; and NFL corners are so fast that even an MVS didn't run away from guys and get wide open very often. I think you need the real threat of doing other things in order to fool corners and sometimes get free deep. Real ball skills and body-control are also important; I don't assume Love is going to be putting throws on the dot. The ability to make contested catches, to fight and shield, to back-shoulder, I think you need a fairly athletic deep-threat guy who can catch some imperfect balls. *IF* just pure speed is the goal, per pre-draft numbers Melton already has pretty excellent 40-speed. Not sure if he'll have the hands, ball skills, and body control to be a threat or to command any double-team. And not sure if he's really as fast as the 40-time suggested, beats me. But if you're just looking for a one-trick fast guy, he may already provide that trick? I'm not sure what routes he's run. But it's interesting that to my recall, Melton has NOT gotten any deep-ball fly-pattern targets? Maybe he's run some and hasn't gotten open or other easier throws opened, I don't know. But it kinda seems like even with his speed, he is already used in more complex ways than one-trick MVS? The issue with those track guys (Janis,MVS) is they usually take a longer time to get in and out of their cuts (That's a lifetime for a NFL cornerback to read and react) A guy like Watson has the agility to transition through the cut. It isn't perfect like a Greg Jennings but it's good enough where he can get back up to speed quickly to finish the route. A lot of those bigger speed guys don't have that. Watson may pay for that with hamstring issues?? I dont know, but he does take this offense to another level when the defense has to account for him. Edited January 6 by NFLGURU 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Dear Christian Watson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, NFLGURU said: The issue with those track guys (Janis,MVS) is they usually take a longer time to get in and out of their cuts (That's a lifetime for a NFL conerback to read and react) A guy like Watson has the agility to transition through the cut. It isn't perfect like a Greg Jennings but it's good enough where he can get back up to speed quickly to finish the route. A lot of those bigger speed guys don't have that. Watson may pay for that with hamstring issues?? I dont know, but he does take this offense to another level when the defense has to account for him. Nicely said. Agree, Watson can sometimes do things and threaten defenses in ways that MVS and Janis types can't. I kinda doubt that throwing a 5th/6th round pick at some one-trick-pony long-fast guy is going to transform the offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, NFLGURU said: Squire, you seem to know a lot about this issue. Do you think this is something that gets worse or weaker the more times you do it? Really hard for me to say without knowing more details about the previous injuries. Grade of injury, location within the muscle(s), what type of collateral stuctures are impacted, is there an underlying asymmetry/ deficit that is playing a role in the injuries. Repeat injuries to the same muscle area is never ideal. I dont know what training principles the GB staff implement and how consistent each player is with adequate follow through on necessary elements of an injury reduction program. Couple articles for anyone who cares. Hamstring strengthening https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29116573/ Injury prevention comparison https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29143267/ Pelvis/core muscle streing https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37139743/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Random question: What players do you think might be legitimately on the cut/trade block? What would potential returns be for those players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWhitehurst Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, craig said: Nicely said. Agree, Watson can sometimes do things and threaten defenses in ways that MVS and Janis types can't. I kinda doubt that throwing a 5th/6th round pick at some one-trick-pony long-fast guy is going to transform the offense. I've never said it would "transform" the offense per se. I said it would help "a bit". How much is a "bit" is certainly relative, debatable, but were I to suggest that having a guy to stretch the defense--even an MVS--would be of no benefit for the offense? Gotta disagree on that... Edited January 6 by DWhitehurst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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