Bears Hiring Matt Nagy

[TankWilliams]

14 minutes ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I never said that Reid thought Nagy was no good.

 

Its sad you have to keep misreading my posts to justify your team’s terrible hire.

I'd like to know where you bought your crystal ball so I can make sure I have the best one too

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I never said that Reid thought Nagy was no good.

 

Its sad you have to keep misreading my posts to justify your team’s terrible hire.

You were basically implying that Reid only said that not to bash Nagy, instead of actually crediting him as being a good coach, namely the best Reid has ever had work under him according to his own words.

And I don't care that you think it's a terrible hire, to each his own.  You are merely stating your opinion and providing no facts to justify your belief that it's a terrible hire.  You gotta do better than that if you are going to convince anyone around here that it's a bad hire before actually seeing how it all goes.

[Sugashane]

12 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I said “never seen a less qualified coach”. Him and Tonsula have similar qualifications.

 

Reid’s endorsement means nothing unless you expect him to bash his coach. He also had nice things to say about his failures like Childress. 

 

False, you're twisting and ignoring facts to support your own nonsense. For instance, similar does not equate to "the same", so even your deflection was a failure.

Childress is a failure? Over 50% of his games were won as a HC, went 1 for 3 in the playoffs, hitting the playoffs. McDaniels had a 39% winning percentage and couldn't finish his 2nd season (even with Bill's high regard of him). Crennel had about a 37% win percentage, but at least was able to make it through over 2 full seasons, Saban is awesome... in college. He didn't get fired through, he ran away during the season. Mangini comes in at just over 41% winning percentage. Weis was a name that was thrown around but he has a sub .500 in college. Childress has outdone them all, and it isn't even close.  The only pro coach to better Reid's failure was Belichick himself, and I'm betting Childress would have had a pretty damn good career with Tom Brady as his franchise QB. 

You mention he was in real estate, that was about 6 years ago. About the same time as when McDaniels was producing a garbage offense as the OC for the Rams. But hey, he had his system installed, so still a positive for him, right?

Looks like Bill doesn't provide many quality coaches for the pros in his little tree, as none were as good a HCs in the pros as Childress. But I'm sure they were "qualified."  lol 

 

4 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I never said that Reid thought Nagy was no good.

 

Its sad you have to keep misreading my posts to justify your team’s terrible hire.

 

You've made your stance, its moronic, and we clearly see you have a hard on against Nagy. No misreading involved in this, it is clear you're biased. The coach isn't from Belichick's coaching tree, so at least he has a chance to succeed in the pros.

[patriotsheatyan]

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

 

False, you're twisting and ignoring facts to support your own nonsense. For instance, similar does not equate to "the same", so even your deflection was a failure.

 

You aren’t good at reading. I said I have never seen a less qualified coach than Nagy. The other poster insinuated I thought Tonsula was more qualified, to which I responded that they are on a similar level. 

If you can’t understand that, then lol.

 

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Childress is a failure? Over 50% of his games were won as a HC, went 1 for 3 in the playoffs, hitting the playoffs. McDaniels had a 39% winning percentage and couldn't finish his 2nd season (even with Bill's high regard of him). Crennel had about a 37% win percentage, but at least was able to make it through over 2 full seasons, Saban is awesome... in college. He didn't get fired through, he ran away during the season. Mangini comes in at just over 41% winning percentage. Weis was a name that was thrown around but he has a sub .500 in college. Childress has outdone them all, and it isn't even close.  The only pro coach to better Reid's failure was Belichick himself, and I'm betting Childress would have had a pretty damn good career with Tom Brady as his franchise QB. 

So Brad Childress was the leagues second best coach, with the difference between him and Belichick being Brady. Got it.

 

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

You mention he was in real estate, that was about 6 years ago. About the same time as when McDaniels was producing a garbage offense as the OC for the Rams. But hey, he had his system installed, so still a positive for him, right?

Looks like Bill doesn't provide many quality coaches for the pros in his little tree, as none were as good a HCs in the pros as Childress. But I'm sure they were "qualified."  lol 

Ok, cool. Nobody said anything about how your sad franchise should have hired Romeo Crennel or Josh McDaniels, who have proven they aren’t head coaching material. It is about how they shouldn’t hire the Chief QB coach who never developed a QB, the Eagles offensive quality control coach who’s offense immediately collapsed, and the Chiefs “OC” with six games of calling plays for another mans offense.

 

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

You've made your stance, its moronic, and we clearly see you have a hard on against Nagy. No misreading involved in this, it is clear you're biased. The coach isn't from Belichick's coaching tree, so at least he has a chance to succeed in the pros.

I’m biased?

Bro, I don’t care how your franchise does. 

Are you really this dense? Is your response going to be a 12 page post about breaking down Josh McDaniels and Eric Mangini’s lives to explain how they aren’t as good as Brad Childress, thus proving that Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach?

Edited January 17, 2018 by patriotsheatyan

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

You aren’t good at reading. I said I have never seen a less qualified coach than Nagy. The other poster insinuated I thought Tonsula was more qualified, to which I responded that they are on a similar level. 

If you can’t understand that, then lol.

 

So Brad Childress was the leagues second best coach, with the difference between him and Belichick being Brady. Got it.

 

Ok, cool. Nobody said anything about how your sad franchise should have hired Romeo Crennel or Josh McDaniels, who have proven they aren’t head coaching material. It is about how they shouldn’t hire the Chief QB coach who never developed a QB, the Eagles offensive quality control coach who’s offense immediately collapsed, and the Chiefs “OC” with six games of calling plays for another mans offense.

 

I’m biased?

Bro, I don’t care how your franchise does. 

Are you really this dense? Is your response going to be a 12 page post about breaking down Josh McDaniels and Eric Mangini’s lives to explain how they aren’t as good as Brad Childress, thus proving that Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach?

 

You aren't good at logic. I brought up Tomsula, but never said he was the only one, and you're using generalized BS. Nagy and Tomsula don't have even "similar qualifications," so you're wrong... again. Now you're the one who clearly can't read. I listed just a handful of coaches that were substantially worse pro HCs than who you listed as a failure. If you are going to act like Brady isn't the primary reason for the Pats' success the last 10 plus years, you're clearly incompetent. I don't think you are, nor do I think you are going to have the balls to say that Brady isn't the most important cog to the Patriot's success, but again you'll throw generalized snowballed points with no backing to them. Never said Childress was the second best coach, didn't you just cry about people misreading posts? You lose again.

I never said you had pointed out Romeo or Josh should be the HC. Here, I'll slowly spell it out for you. There is more than just looking at if a young QB has developed or they installed their "own offense" which is laughable as most just alter the system they were brought into. They have to show leadership qualities, be able to manage the offense or defense, carry out a lot of other tasks. You listed very few points to try and diminish his resume, while blatantly ignoring a lot of other factors that have to go in. Some of the coaches I mentioned, by the standards you put up, would seem qualified but were horrible HCs. You're also ignoring how Smith took on more of the offense while Nagy was with him, and was able to put up the most of the best numbers of his career. That isn't all on Nagy, but it isn't all on Reid either.

 

I made brief points on several true "failures." The term you used on Childress. He wasn't a great HC, but was far better than the garbage HCs NE has produced. The fact you keep responding without even saying anything worthwhile shows you have no true point and are just spitballing. I never went on about how Nagy was qualified due to their failures, just that you are showing a total lack of thought in your posts. You were the one who brought up his real estate business, not me. I simply responded.  Hope you enjoyed the "12 pages."

[malak1]

On 1/16/2018 at 10:25 AM, patriotsheatyan said:

I never said that Reid thought Nagy was no good.

 

Its sad you have to keep misreading my posts to justify your team’s terrible hire.

Bears fans will just have to wait and see. We can’t all be Patriots/Yankee fans ?

[patriotsheatyan]

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

 

You aren't good at logic. I brought up Tomsula, but never said he was the only one, and you're using generalized BS. Nagy and Tomsula don't have even "similar qualifications," so you're wrong... again.  

Yes they do. Tomsula and Nagy were both positions and/or assistant coaches for virtually their entire careers, with Tomsula having a brief stint in NFL Europe as a HC and DC while Nagy has a six game stretch calling plays in the NFL.

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

I listed just a handful of coaches that were substantially worse pro HCs than who you listed as a failure. If you are going to act like Brady isn't the primary reason for the Pats' success the last 10 plus years, you're clearly incompetent. I don't think you are, nor do I think you are going to have the balls to say that Brady isn't the most important cog to the Patriot's success, but again you'll throw generalized snowballed points with no backing to them. Never said Childress was the second best coach, didn't you just cry about people misreading posts? You lose again.

“Childress has a better record than Eric Mangini and Romeo Crennel, and Tom Brady is the reason for the Patriots success, therefore Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach, and if you disagree about Brady, you’re incompetent”.

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

If you are going to act like Brady isn't the primary reason for the Pats' success the last 10 plus years, you're clearly incompetent. I don't think you are, nor do I think you are going to have the balls to say that Brady isn't the most important cog to the Patriot's success, but again you'll throw generalized snowballed points with no backing to them.

“Unless of course Brady isn’t, which you lack the balls to say on the internet. I don’t seem to know either way, but regardless you either lack balls if you agree with one of my claims, or you’re incompetent if you agree with the other, and this proves Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach in the NFL.”

 

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

Never said Childress was the second best coach, didn't you just cry about people misreading posts? You lose again

 

On 1/16/2018 at 2:54 PM, Sugashane said:

The only pro coach to better Reid's failure was Belichick himself, and I'm betting Childress would have had a pretty damn good career with Tom Brady as his franchise QB. 

Lol

 

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

never said you had pointed out Romeo or Josh should be the HC. Here, I'll slowly spell it out for you. There is more than just looking at if a young QB has developed or they installed their "own offense" which is laughable as most just alter the system they were brought into. They have to show leadership qualities, be able to manage the offense or defense, carry out a lot of other tasks. You listed very few points to try and diminish his resume, while blatantly ignoring a lot of other factors that have to go in. Some of the coaches I mentioned, by the standards you put up, would seem qualified but were horrible HCs. You're also ignoring how Smith took on more of the offense while Nagy was with him, and was able to put up the most of the best numbers of his career. That isn't all on Nagy, but it isn't all on Reid either.

“It doesn’t matter if a head coaching candidate has play calling experience, or has ever designed an offense or built his own playbook, or if he has ever been a head coach, or if he has overseen success development of talent. What matters is that he can give good speeches like in the movies and has had unspecified success in other categories that must be equally important. This is proven by Josh McDaniels failing in Denver and Charlie Wise failing at Notre Dame.” 

[Sugashane]

You're not even able to use quotation marks correctly. Granted you have been lost basically the entire banter so it isn't that surprising, just amusing. Quick tip, if you're using quotation marks, quote what was said exactly. Paraphrasing, especially when done incorrectly and like an idiot, requires no quotation marks. You're welcome.

 

Quote

Tomsula and Nagy were both positions and/or assistant coaches for virtually their entire careers, with Tomsula having a brief stint in NFL Europe as a HC and DC while Nagy has a six game stretch calling plays in the NFL.

You realize first time HCs are always "positions and/or assistant coaches for virtually their entire careers" until they actually become HCs, right? Way to belabor the obvious.

Clearly those jobs entailed the exact same duties. Never having served as even a coordinator in the NFL but also having a week as interim HC is the same as being focused on QBs and 2 years working as the OC of an NFL team are identical. I'm sure the Berlin Thunder were as detailed and thorough as an NFL team. Focusing on the development for a DL is not the same as working with QBs who have to have MUCH more detailed and complicated gameplans and reuirements than DTs and DEs. Especially if in a two gap system that has limited stunts.

 

Quote

Childress has a better record than Eric Mangini and Romeo Crennel, and Tom Brady is the reason for the Patriots success, therefore Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach, and if you disagree about Brady, you’re incompetent”.

Incorrectly quoted, but -

Childress was better than Mangini and Crennel.

Brady is the primary reason for the Pat's success. You didn't disagree. But I didn't say that was why Nagy was qualified.

But you threw generalized, snowballed points that had no backing, just like I said you would. Too easy.

 

9 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

“Unless of course Brady isn’t, which you lack the balls to say on the internet. I don’t seem to know either way, but regardless you either lack balls if you agree with one of my claims, or you’re incompetent if you agree with the other, and this proves Matt Nagy is qualified to be a head coach in the NFL.”

You made literally no point, so you tapped out.

 

9 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Lol

You know I'm right but had no comeback. I win again.

 

9 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

“It doesn’t matter if a head coaching candidate has play calling experience, or has ever designed an offense or built his own playbook, or if he has ever been a head coach, or if he has overseen success development of talent. What matters is that he can give good speeches like in the movies and has had unspecified success in other categories that must be equally important. This is proven by Josh McDaniels failing in Denver and Charlie Wise failing at Notre Dame.” 

 

Are we talking speeches like The Replacements, Any Given  Sunday, and Remember the Titans?!?! Not as important though unless they break out in song in the locker room. I'm sure you know that though. Josh McDaniels and Wide were poor singers, that was why they never were great NFL HCs.

I want to point out that was sarcasm since you clearly can't read.

By the way...

 

Quote

 

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

I listed just a handful of coaches that were substantially worse pro HCs than who you listed as a failure. If you are going to act like Brady isn't the primary reason for the Pats' success the last 10 plus years, you're clearly incompetent. I don't think you are, nor do I think you are going to have the balls to say that Brady isn't the most important cog to the Patriot's success, but again you'll throw generalized snowballed points with no backing to them. Never said Childress was the second best coach, didn't you just cry about people misreading posts? You lose again.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

On 1/17/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sugashane said:

If you are going to act like Brady isn't the primary reason for the Pats' success the last 10 plus years, you're clearly incompetent. I don't think you are, nor do I think you are going to have the balls to say that Brady isn't the most important cog to the Patriot's success, but again you'll throw generalized snowballed points with no backing to them.

 

 

You just quoted the same thing twice. Is there anything you can do right?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Sugashane

[Jeezla]

I don't know if he'll be a good coach, but keeping Fangio was a good first step. I don't think he'll be any worse than Tress or Fox if he's willing to do something a lot of Andy Reid disciples don't - make adjustments when your offense obviously isn't working. Hopefully he's able to create a positive locker room atmosphere like Doug Pederson did for the Eagles after everyone was down in the dumps playing for Chip.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jeezla

[patriotsheatyan]

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

You realize first time HCs are always "positions and/or assistant coaches for virtually their entire careers" until they actually become HCs, right? Way to belabor the obvious.

Clearly those jobs entailed the exact same duties. Never having served as even a coordinator in the NFL but also having a week as interim HC is the same as being focused on QBs and 2 years working as the OC of an NFL team are identical. I'm sure the Berlin Thunder were as detailed and thorough as an NFL team. Focusing on the development for a DL is not the same as working with QBs who have to have MUCH more detailed and complicated gameplans and reuirements than DTs and DEs. Especially if in a two gap system that has limited stunts.

So, your argument on Nagy being more qualified amounts to saying that:

One: One season as an OC with somebody else calling the plays and creating the playbook with worth more than a season as a HC in NFL Europe, with your arguments on why an NFL Europe HC isn’t as valuable as Nagy’s limited time as OC being functionally no different than an argument against a college HC, who also have to manage things differently than a pro coach who are also less detailed than NFL teams. 

Two: That being a quarterback coach for functionally one player who is already developed (Smith) is more complicated than Tonsula coaching ten or so players a season who will typically get playing time, while getting several new players a year who all get playing time, and has to share these players with a ST coach. 

Neither of these prove that Nagy is more qualified than Tomsula.

 

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Incorrectly quoted, but -

Childress was better than Mangini and Crennel.

Brady is the primary reason for the Pat's success. You didn't disagree. But I didn't say that was why Nagy was qualified.

But you threw generalized, snowballed points that had no backing, just like I said you would. Too easy.

 

“I have no idea what I am even saying at this or any other point of this discussion, but the success of Tom Brady, and Brad Childress’s superior record to Romeo Crennel proves Matt Nagy is qualified to be a Head Coach”

 

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

You know I'm right but had no comeback. I win again

“I made a post implying that that Childress could have had a comparable level of success to Bill Belichick if he had Tom Brady in a bizarre attempt to show that Nagy is qualified to be a head coach and then denied it without deleting my prior post. I don’t even know what I am trying to say, so I will pretend that I am just trying to be funny instead of being dumb”

 

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

 

Are we talking speeches like The Replacements, Any Given  Sunday, and Remember the Titans?!?! Not as important though unless they break out in song in the locker room. I'm sure you know that though. Josh McDaniels and Wide were poor singers, that was why they never were great NFL HCs.

I want to point out that was sarcasm since you clearly can't read.

 

“I still have no actual explanation on what makes Nagy qualified to be a head coach given just six games of play calling experience, no head coaching experience at any level, no examples of successful player development, and having never made his own playbook, so here is another joke post”.

Edited January 19, 2018 by patriotsheatyan

[Superman(DH23)]

@patriotsheatyan

Did he design the offense? No. Bill Walsh designed the foundation of the offense while i was still in diapers and im old.  Mike Holmgren then tweeked the offense for his personnel in GB and Andy Reid tweeked it again for his teams.  By ALL ACCOUNTS Nagy then tweeked it this year to take advantage of the personnel in KC.  As Nagy said himself at his presser.  Andy was always good about listening to new ideas and if he liked it, it went into the playbook.   To reiterate NOBODY has designed an offense in 30 years.  Everybody is working with a foundation that was set many years ago, hell the wco is just a continuation of what Paul Brown started 60 damn years ago.  

Now i have a question for you, since you are so certain he is unqualified, what are the qualifications for an nfl hc.  Im waiting...

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

So, your argument on Nagy being more qualified amounts to saying that:

One: One season as an OC with somebody else calling the plays and creating the playbook with worth more than a season as a HC in NFL Europe, with your arguments on why an NFL Europe HC isn’t as valuable as Nagy’s limited time as OC being functionally no different than an argument against a college HC, who also have to manage things differently than a pro coach who are also less detailed than NFL teams. 

Two: That being a quarterback coach for functionally one player who is already developed (Smith) is more complicated than Tonsula coaching ten or so players a season who will typically get playing time, while getting several new players a year who all get playing time, and has to share these players with a ST coach. 

Neither of these prove that Nagy is more qualified than Tomsula.

 

Already wrong. Two season as OC. Learn to count.

I'd put FBS college HC well above NFL Europe.

QB coach makes sure that one player has a hell of a lot more mental work and has to be in sync with the WRs, TEs, and blocking adjustments. DL coach works on stunts and learning gap responsibilities, etc. They aren't even comparable. Smith, who you say was already developed, had his best years with Nagy. He was further developed even after having 7 years of reinforced habits, system differences, etc. Nagy's playcalling accounted for a resurgence of KC's offense and MUCH better play. The Bears just drafted Trubisky with the 2nd overall pick and Nagy made the adjustments to allow KC to do much better on offense while he was calling. They had scored 36 points the 3 games combined prior to him calling plays. He calls plays and the last 5 weeks of the regular season they scored an average of over 28 PPG. He clearly put them in a better position to succeed, which is something that will likely greatly aid Trubisky's growth. This isn't a Madden game, being able to connect to players will help a lot. Lovie Smith wasn't a great coach, but his players would run through a damn wall for him. McDaniels is  great offensive mind, but in DEN he lost the locker room. That is a major part of being a HC, regardless if you want to acknowledge it or not. It is far more than rah-rah speeches. 

As a Pats fan you should know long term success starts with the QB, the Texans have sucked while Watt dominated, the Rams while Donald dominated, etc. You rarely ever see a QB with a stellar season have a losing record. Nagy helped Smith become more than a meager game-manager, after years of him being nothing more than that. That alone DOES make him more qualified than a DL coach who rode off top-end talent all around the defense in his few successful years.

 

4 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I have no idea what I am even saying at this or any other point of this discussion, but the success of Tom Brady, and Brad Childress’s superior record to Romeo Crennel proves Matt Nagy is qualified to be a Head Coach”

 

You're still too stupid to use quotation marks correctly. lol

Still didn't mention Nagy in those points. You again prove you have a hard on for him. You can jump on his bandwagon just like you likely did for the Pats. You don't have to pick between them.

 

4 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

“I made a post implying that that Childress could have had a comparable level of success to Bill Belichick if he had Tom Brady in a bizarre attempt to show that Nagy is qualified to be a head coach and then denied it without deleting my prior post. I don’t even know what I am trying to say, so I will pretend that I am just trying to be funny instead of being dumb”

 

Never compared him to Belichick, you're misreading and still wrong. Childress would have had a better career as a HC with Brady as his QB. It's not a stretch to say that, as would pretty much any coach. Or are you saying Brady would not have made a difference over Brad Johnson, Travarius Jackson, and Gus Frerotte? The one season Belichick didn't have Brady for most of the season, they missed the playoffs even with a completely stacked team. Hmmmm.... Belichick is obviously much better than Childress, but he missed the playoffs without Brady. Likely the greatest coach of all time missed the playoffs entirely because Brady was gone. Even you should see how vital Brady is to Bill's success and how Brady would help ANY coach's chances for success.

 

 

4 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

“I still have no actual explanation on what makes Nagy qualified to be a head coach given just six games of play calling experience, no head coaching experience at any level, no examples of successful player development, and having never made his own playbook, so here is another joke post”.

 

See the top point I made, as I have made similar points but you're just not bright enough to understand. If you don't see any development in Smith from his time in SF you're truly lost. He has passed for more YPG in his 5 years in KC than ANY year in SF, interception percent is cut in half in KC, TD percent is up, 60 more yards per game, etc. His 5 years in KC totaled are more productive than his 7 in SF, by a significant amount. But he was already "developed" and was not developed at all in KC. Sure... lol

 

But you again had pretty much nothing but misquotes as your replies, no points of your own. I look forward to your next response where you again say nothing substantial.

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

@patriotsheatyan

Did he design the offense? No. Bill Walsh designed the foundation of the offense while i was still in diapers and im old.  Mike Holmgren then tweeked the offense for his personnel in GB and Andy Reid tweeked it again for his teams.  By ALL ACCOUNTS Nagy then tweeked it this year to take advantage of the personnel in KC.  As Nagy said himself at his presser.  Andy was always good about listening to new ideas and if he liked it, it went into the playbook.   To reiterate NOBODY has designed an offense in 30 years.  Everybody is working with a foundation that was set many years ago, hell the wco is just a continuation of what Paul Brown started 60 damn years ago.  

Now i have a question for you, since you are so certain he is unqualified, what are the qualifications for an nfl hc.  Im waiting...

 

I'm sure Josh McDaniels took nothing from Weis at all. He invented his own playbook with nothing at all kept from his mentor. All new and innovative stuff, nothing close to any previously create system at all... 

 

 

[Heinz D.]

5 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Neither of these prove that Nagy is more qualified than Tomsula.

I've read over most of this back and forth now twice, and I'm simply not getting where you're coming from. Now...that may be because I'm decidedly sleep deprived, but I don't think so.

You do realize Tomsula is a defensive minded coach?

Right?

The Bears wanting an offensive guy for their new hire makes perfect sense to...well, just about everybody. And was McVay a terrible hire over Tomsula, as well? 

[TankWilliams]

Quote

#Bears are expected to hire Brad Childress as an offensive consultant, source said. Nagy and Childress are very close, so it's not exactly a surprise.

This is another big get for Da Bears.