Jaguars vs. Steelers Divisional Playoff GDT

[DR43]

Just now, SlevinKelevra said:

I didn't say that.

try again.

Oops.  You're right.

That was TXSteeler. 

Im so embarrassed.

[August4th]

I'm now over the loss.. just hope someone knocks off NE so this season can end on a good note

[BlaqOptic]

Just now, August4th said:

I'm now over the lose.. just hope someone knocks off NE so this season can end on a good note

Only team remaining who's fans aren't annoying are Minnesota. I am ALL IN on on them.

[CKSteeler]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

In a way.  But it's also better planning by the FO to be prepared for these things.  If the FO knows that Tomlin if going to be a guy that generally wants guys that can do multiple things, or what he likes/needs, that's up to them to find guys who fit that.  I mean behind Shazier at ILB this year we had a bunch of ST players and north south LBers.  We didn't have a single sideline to sideline.  And we know that Tomlin likes 1 N-S LBer and 1 E-W LBer on the field.  So that becomes an organizational problem that we didn't better plan to have a LB who might not produce the same but can fill the role.  

And therein lies what Bellechick does much better.  Van Noy is a sideline to sideline LBer.  Grigsby is the guy that comes in for him, a sideline to sideline guy.

Alan Branch, his run stuffing DT goes out, he doesn't panic.  He moves Flowers, his DE, inside.  But instead of bringing another pass rusher in, He puts in Grissom, who's OK at rushing the passer but a good run defender.  So what he did was move a guy to a position that he succeeds playing with a fast penetrating, and brings in a lane holder outside of him, and uses that to better adjust.

Just like when Tuitt went out, a better option to Alualu may have been 2 man fronts, with 5 LBers as opposed to bringing in a guy who struggles against the run.

I don't know how many actual sideline to sideline LB's there are in the NFL period. Let alone guys with Shazier's speed which is, frankly, unique at that spot. You say Tomlin likes versatility. True enough. He also likes guys with unique skillsets. He depends on players with freakish athletic ability far more than NE does. Belichick emphasizes players who do their jobs and who are able to learn on the fly, as well. I get to hear how smart certain guys on this defense are, but it doesn't seem like there's much trust behind it.

Not having a sideline to sideline ILB wasn't the biggest issue they had today, anyway. Biting on play fakes and then letting Jacksonville ram it straight down their throats on the ground? Bigger problem. And it's not like fans weren't discussing alternatives to Sean Spence and Fort weeks back. Ones that include using some of the athleticism they have at ILB. I'd much rather have some more weight in the middle of the defense, especially in goal line situations, when playing someone like Jacksonville. But Tomlin's philosophy seems to be that this would be too much change and too much of a strain on his players. I mean, Sean Spence getting trucked today was a 7 point swing early. Steelers could have stopped Jags early momentum.

Belichick is the gold standard, but Tomlin's personnel usage on defense is often pretty conservative. And I doubt anyone here can imagine him, say, trotting out WR's as extra DB's when injuries hit. Or moving OLB's inside like the Packers did with Clay Matthews when they had injuries.

Did Colbert bring back Sean Spence because it was the best he could come up with, or did he do it because that's what Tomlin was most comfortable with? Remember Tomlin is the same guy who, after seeing Sensabaugh torched for 6 quarters, continued to say that his resume gave him comfort. Like, sure he sucks, but it's a known form of suck.

I also recall the Steelers signing a heavy hitting veteran safety who was supposed to beef up their dime packages, but he was on the sidelines deactivated again so they could trot out Willie Gay. I mean, when signed, most of us seemed to expect Wilcox was there to make up for the loss of Timmons inside on passing downs. But Tomlin couldn't find any use for him despite godawful safety play from the three guys ahead of him on the depth chart. A special teams penalty that was frankly soft put him in street clothes. But I guess I'll be told to trust the coaches assessment of him, as well.

[TXsteeler]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Except that's part of his accomplishments.  You can't take that away.  Personally I'm 5-0 when I have to act as a head coach.  Can you take that away from me and make me out to not be a good coach with that??

Ok but what got him to his records? How is this a hard question for y'all? Explain to a new nfl can what makes tomlin special without just giving us numbers.

[JLambert58]

39 minutes ago, SlevinKelevra said:

Cowher only had  2   1-and-done in the playoffs.  Tomlin has 4.

 

 

Cowher lost BIG games he was supposed to win... at home.   Every coach has his flaws.  Very few coaches win every time they are supposed to in the playoffs.  

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, TXsteeler said:

Ok but what got him to his records? How is this a hard question for y'all? Explain to a new nfl can what makes tomlin special without just giving us numbers.

He can get guys to perform better than what they really are.  Years of starting subpar OLB'ers and DB's, yet we've managed to at worse an average defense, which is great.  He makes the tough calls when they need to be made, and is most likely to succeed when he does.  For a team with so many ego's he manages it really well and gets these guys together and makes them pull in the same direction.

[TXsteeler]

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

The problem with your logic is that, when it comes to coaching,  most coaching is done where fans dont see it....be it at practice, in the lockerroom, in the film room and on the sidelines when the camera isnt on him.  That directly effects the product we see on the field.     The product we see on the field can be inconsistent....in large part because of Tomlin's shortcomings, but once again, no one is claiming Tomlin is "great", but to claim we should just ignore his accomplishments from a record perspective is laughable.

Tomlin's teams are usually good.   Inconsistent....aggravating....but good.     Thats really all that needs to be said.    His players speak highly of him, he has never lost the locker room, his teams have shown alot of resilience in bad situations, and while he plays down to alot of bad teams, he plays up to alot of good ones.      

And despite some Steeler fans bashing him for not having success with Big Ben, how about looking at alot of these other teams that have franchise QBs and dont have as much success as Tomlin.     Sean Peyton?  Norv Turner?  Tom Coughlin?    Mike McCarthy?    Pretty much anyone outside of the Patriots?    

The way some of you talk, you would think we were a perennial middling team under Tomlin.....as opposed to a team that is constantly in the race, and the only coach who has every CLEARLY outclassed him over the years is the greatest coach of all time.  

 

 

I'm not saying to ignore his accomplishments, I'm challenging people to explain how good he is without just simply linking me to Wikipedia. I know a lot of what he does is behind closed doors, but based on what we see, how is he better than other coaches?

[JLambert58]

50 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Any coach that comes in and says "we can't win a Lombardi" should be fired on the spot.

 

This is what is great about Tomlin, he's a confident guy who breeds confidence in his players.  Half the battle to winning is believing you can win and for that we should all be happy that Tomlin is the guy leading the team.  He may not win every time, but he believes he can.  

[TXsteeler]

55 minutes ago, DR43 said:

How am i supposed to tell you how Tomlin is a good coach without acknowledging his accomplishments?

Use that same logic the next time you're on a job interview.

Bro I have never had to bring up statistics in a job interview. How is this question so hard to understand for you people.

Like I can argue AB is a great WR without stats, here. "AB is the best WR in the league because of his elite route running combined with his burst speed and willingness to fight for extra yards, which he gets by insane lateral quickness and great footwork. He is not the tallest not the fastest WR but he continuously out produces the guys who are by working harder and still manages to produce with backup qbs even while double or triple covered."

There you go, do the same for tomlin.

[warfelg]

22 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I don't know how many actual sideline to sideline LB's there are in the NFL period. Let alone guys with Shazier's speed which is, frankly, unique at that spot. You say Tomlin likes versatility. True enough. He also likes guys with unique skillsets. He depends on players with freakish athletic ability far more than NE does. Belichick emphasizes players who do their jobs and who are able to learn on the fly, as well. I get to hear how smart certain guys on this defense are, but it doesn't seem like there's much trust behind it.

I would say there's many more than you think there is.  Yes, Tomlin likes guys with unique skillsets, doesn't mean you can't find guys who can give you part of what they do.

Quote

Not having a sideline to sideline ILB wasn't the biggest issue they had today, anyway. Biting on play fakes and then letting Jacksonville ram it straight down their throats on the ground? Bigger problem. And it's not like fans weren't discussing alternatives to Sean Spence and Fort weeks back. Ones that include using some of the athleticism they have at ILB. I'd much rather have some more weight in the middle of the defense, especially in goal line situations, when playing someone like Jacksonville. But Tomlin's philosophy seems to be that this would be too much change and too much of a strain on his players. I mean, Sean Spence getting trucked today was a 7 point swing early. Steelers could have stopped Jags early momentum.

And I addressed that by saying that VW is much overrated by fans.  And I think Tomlin is fine using heftier guys in the middle as well, as he has in the past.  But part of the issue is not many of those guys are coming out of college anymore.

Quote

Belichick is the gold standard, but Tomlin's personnel usage on defense is often pretty conservative. And I doubt anyone here can imagine him, say, trotting out WR's as extra DB's when injuries hit. Or moving OLB's inside like the Packers did with Clay Matthews when they had injuries.

And those were extreme dire situations.  We can talk about that when we have 6 DB's hurt or 4-5 ILB's.

Quote

Did Colbert bring back Sean Spence because it was the best he could come up with, or did he do it because that's what Tomlin was most comfortable with? Remember Tomlin is the same guy who, after seeing Sensabaugh torched for 6 quarters, continued to say that his resume gave him comfort. Like, sure he sucks, but it's a known form of suck.

We'll never know will we?  Maybe it was both were comfortable with him in a pinch because he's familiar.  That's just as important in a late season pickup for an important role as just ability.  We went through that multiple times this year.

Quote

I also recall the Steelers signing a heavy hitting veteran safety who was supposed to beef up their dime packages, but he was on the sidelines deactivated again so they could trot out Willie Gay. I mean, when signed, most of us seemed to expect Wilcox was there to make up for the loss of Timmons inside on passing downs. But Tomlin couldn't find any use for him despite godawful safety play from the three guys ahead of him on the depth chart. A special teams penalty that was frankly soft put him in street clothes. But I guess I'll be told to trust the coaches assessment of him, as well.

Wilcox has been injured off and on.

[TXsteeler]

10 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He can get guys to perform better than what they really are.  Years of starting subpar OLB'ers and DB's, yet we've managed to at worse an average defense, which is great.  He makes the tough calls when they need to be made, and is most likely to succeed when he does.  For a team with so many ego's he manages it really well and gets these guys together and makes them pull in the same direction.

Thank you.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, TXsteeler said:

Thank you.

And that's just what I can see without knowing what's going on inside the facility.

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, TXsteeler said:

Bro I have never had to bring up statistics in a job interview.

You must not work in athletics.

[steelcurtain29]

Can we please keep it civil with the coaching discussions?

 

I have created a thread where we can discuss this. I would prefer that, as it's easier for me to keep an eye out on the topic. It's a hot topic that it seems some members are tip-toeing the forum rules over.

 

Feel free to continue here ----->