Worse play by a safety: Markus Williams yesterday or Rahim Moore in 2012?

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Williams' was much worse in my eyes simply because of the situation. 10 seconds left, 1 point lead, you tackle him in bounds it's game over, you even push him out of bounds and the Vikings have to attempt a a 50+ yard FG. I believe in Ravens-Broncos there was 30+ seconds, and it was only 3rd down with a 7 point lead. Williams' mistake directly lead to a loss, Moore's mistake lead to a tie which ended up being a loss. Ignoring situation, they were both equally poor. Both safeties tried to make game ending plays (Moore: an INT, Williams: a tackle in bounds) instead of taking the more conservative route, and simply screwed up in their attempts.

 

 

I do think it was just a bad play call by the Saints. Williams screwed up, but erase the screw up that we're all talking about and the Vikings are still in position to win the game with a ~52 yard FG. The defense as a whole failed, or rather the playcall itself, to allow Diggs to get as open as he did. You look at the play and right off the bat they not only show a 4 man rush, but they do just rush each of those guys. Usually you'd only rush 3 there. You have to sell out to stop the sideline throw. Also, why have 2 guys covering the middle of the field so close? The Vikings needed at least 15 yards to get into FG range, you don't need to worry about jumping on the quick out from a slot WR or RB out of the backfield, which is why you'd want guys in that zone. Hell, the inside defender on our left literally doesn't even move on the play, so it's not like they tried to give one look only to have those 2 defenders retreat toward the sideline, instead he really was just covering the middle of the field outside of FG range.

 

The Vikings were playing for a 15+ yard gain that would end out of bounds within 9 seconds, the whole world knew this... does this look like a defense designed to stop that?

 

[BigBearSD]

To me I can understand Marcus Williams mistake more, I think there are more things for him to take into consideration that could have given the vikings an Field goal opportunity. There is the obvious potential pass interference if he hits Diggs early, but also Diggs was defenseless in the air if he hits Diggs the wrong way it could have been a personal foul on top of the catch with a untimed down for a chip shot field goal. He was already early to the spot and Diggs is a pretty elusive guy in general so if he decides to stop and wait for a split second there is a very slight possibility of Diggs slipping out of bounds or maybe slipping the tackle and scoring. It just seemed like a lot for the rookie to take in for that one huge moment especially considering he was likely told no penalties no matter what.

 

Moore on the other hand to me was trying to be the games hero when he didn't need to. The Ravens were down a TD with about 30 seconds left and if Moore simply makes the safe play of tackling Jacoby Jones the ravens still need to go about 20 yards to get the TD. Which is far from guaranteed against that pretty good Denver defense. It indeed looked like Moore had a pretty decent chance to get a INT on that ball. However all he had to do was his job of not letting anyone get behind him and trust in his team mates who had been a top 5 defense that year to not allow a TD. So to me that makes what Rahim Moore did worse.

[Malik]

just wrap the guy up. it is that simple. A pass interference call is better than a whiff. You make sure he goes down.

[Soko]

Marcus Williams’ is worse IMO. 

The fact that he was at least in the right position compared to Rahim Moore, only amplifies how badly he whiffed. Williams could’ve tripped on his own feet when Diggs jumped and could’ve gotten a better result than not only completely missing, but taking out another defender as well.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

Williams is worse because of how easy of a play it is. He lost all fundamentals that you learn in highschool, looked straight down, whiffed completely(and almost contorted his body away from Diggs), and took out the only other defender in the area. Williams must have let the nerves get to him or something cause tracking the ball and coming up and hitting a WR who is literally right in front of you is the basics of the basics.

Moore's is awful, but Williams is that much worse.

[tom cody]

Went with Williams. 

[BroncoSojia]

This discussion hurts my soul. 

[sammymvpknight]

I thought that it is well established that Williams didn’t miss the tackle...he was trying to avoid the PI call. Clearly, it was a mistake nonetheless less...but if that was a play in the 3rd quarter, I’m about 99% confident he makes that play. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Williams, by far. Rahim Moore mis judged (barely) a 50+ yard throw in the air. That's understandable. Marcus Williams...I don't even know what he was doing.

[MWil23]

I personally think that it's easily Moore. Williams could at least verbalize that he was afraid of:

1. A DPI penalty, as you can see via replay he DID mis-time his arrival, which would have set up a spot foul and a very make-able 48 yard field goal attempt

2. He was confused as to whether or not to play the ball like his instincts told him to, or make the tackle in bounds and end the game.

3. Say what you will, but when your instincts tell you one thing (knock the ball down) and your brain tells you another (make the tackle in bounds and end the game), splitting the difference can happen in a tenth of a second and that occurs.

Moore was basically just terrible in every facet and honestly missed the ball by a much wider margin than Williams missed the tackle.

[BlaqOptic]

It's surpising to me that most people don't realize that Williams tried to tackle like that to avoid a ridiculous "defenseless receiver" penalty which would've put the Saints in GW FG position. Granted, ultimately, things worked out even worse but this was the perfect example of people saying that these new rules were going to one day cost a team a big game.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

It's surpising to me that most people don't realize that Williams tried to tackle like that to avoid a ridiculous "defenseless receiver" penalty which would've put the Saints in GW FG position. Granted, ultimately, things worked out even worse but this was the perfect example of people saying that these new rules were going to one day cost a team a big game.

Fortunately, all of this "well I just didn't want to get a DPI" stuff could've been avoided had he just kept his head up...

[Soko]

4 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

It's surpising to me that most people don't realize that Williams tried to tackle like that to avoid a ridiculous "defenseless receiver" penalty which would've put the Saints in GW FG position. Granted, ultimately, things worked out even worse but this was the perfect example of people saying that these new rules were going to one day cost a team a big game.

Honest question, do you know of any defenseless receiver penalties that happened with the receiver’s back to the defender? 

I can’t recall any. I’d have to wonder why that’d go through his head given their positioning. But I also wonder how he managed to avoid all contact, so there’s that too.

[BlaqOptic]

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Honest question, do you know of any defenseless receiver penalties that happened with the receiver’s back to the defender? 

I can’t recall any. I’d have to wonder why that’d go through his head given their positioning. But I also wonder how he managed to avoid all contact, so there’s that too.

I can think of SEVERAL that occured in that situation where the WR turns around directly into the DB and the DB is penalized for what a normal person would understand was high contact but not meant to harm the WR. Unfortunately for Williams, Diggs didn't come down the way a WR typically would in that situation, IMO.

[Soko]

23 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said:

I can think of SEVERAL that occured in that situation where the WR turns around directly into the DB and the DB is penalized for what a normal person would understand was high contact but not meant to harm the WR. Unfortunately for Williams, Diggs didn't come down the way a WR typically would in that situation, IMO.

Yeah, see that’s why I specified “with his back to the defender”. Given how quickly Williams got to the spot and how long Diggs was in the air, there was really no risk of Diggs turning out. Williams was already at (what would have been) the point of contact before Diggs even came down with the ball. He just missed. 

He could’ve done the same, head-down dive, just a step to the right and he likely would’ve flipped Diggs over - maybe dislodged the ball. Maybe Diggs lands on his feet and runs in anyway. Either way, Williams drops his eyes (which is the way plenty of head hunters did/do it) and whiffs. 

I don’t really believe Williams was thinking of an incidental headshot here. Or, if he was, he misjudged it even worse than if he were to just miss the tackle. He got there so early that I’d actually buy that he was trying extra hard to avoid early contact and thus a PI flag, but he wasn’t even close to personal foul territory IYAM.