So who else here remembers when the Pats were the spunky underdogs against the Steelers and Rams in 2002

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Well that's part of it too. However I'm pretty sure Kurt Warner was the MVP that year. Warner 1999, Faulk 2000, Warner 2001.

Correct. I should have specified. Somehow Faulk was the OPOY though, even though Warner was the MVP.

[August4th]

interesting in seeing how the image of the pats have changed since 01

01-06 were led by defense and clutch play from brady.. always found a way to win

07-13 were led by brady and historically good offense but always came up short

14-17 seems like a mix of both...  juggernaut offense with a solid defense ..the combination of the two always finding a way to win

[lancerman]

10 minutes ago, August4th said:

interesting in seeing how the image of the pats have changed since 01

01-06 were lead by defense and clutch play from brady.. always found a way to win

07-13 were lead by brady and historically good offense but always came up short

14-17 seems like a mix of both...  juggernaut offense with a solid defense ..the combination of the two always finding a way to win

It's funny cause I see it similarly but I see it like this. 

01-06 amazing secondary

07-13 horrible secondary

14-17 very solid secondary

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Well... let's put it this way. The people who investigated it said there was nothing there. The people who reported and broke the story who had  nothing to do with the NFL also were forced to retract it. So everyone who actually looked into it and knew the most about it... said it didn't happen. And then you believe it... because I can only presume you want to believe it. 

Pats won that game because they played physical defense and the Rams couldn't get anything going. Patriots had a good game against that same team earlier in the season and almost beat them. Did they tape their walkthrough then too?

Care to explain how the Patriots had an audible ready for plays the Rams had never run before? The plays that were only ever run once, in their walkthrough?

What about when Eric Mangini and Jets security caught a Patriots employee video taping signals with an NFL Photographer vest on? Did that not happen because the tapes were destroyed as well?

 

[dtait93]

Being a Titans fan, watching the Rams lose on the final play that year brought me so much joy after what happened to us against them in the Super Bowl. Little did I know that that would be the launching point to an additional 18 years of pain.

Being in the AFC South you knew you had to first get through Manning, and if you somehow did that you had to get through Belichick and Brady. So you know you had little to no shot in our division. I still didn't even mention Big Ben, who is a whole other monster himself. 3 HoF QB's have owned the AFC for the last 2 decades. The only one who could stop them? Ray Lewis.

The perhaps greatest leader and defensive player of all time was the only one who could get in their way. My measley ol' Titans never had a shot all along. Feels bad man.

Hats off to New England. All the allegations and scandals are irrelevant imo. You don't do what they do if you aren't great. Period the end.

[lancerman]

1 minute ago, JonStark said:

Care to explain how the Patriots had an audible ready for plays the Rams had never run before? The plays that were only ever run once, in their walkthrough?

What about when Eric Mangini and Jets security caught a Patriots employee video taping signals with an NFL Photographer vest on? Did that not happen because the tapes were destroyed as well?

 

There's about a dozen reasons for why. A player on the offense could have given away a tell on the type of play with a motion, could have been a play that the Patriots have seen on other teams before or similar types of plays before.... etc. Either way your basing it off a good well coached defense being able to adjust to an offensive formation and guessing the type of play correctly. If that was impossible, teams would just make new plays every game and they'd all catch the defense off guard. It's just very naive and ignores the fundamental nature of football. 

And again I would like to state you once that you have completely ignored that every single person whether with the NFL or with the media that looked into it said it wasn't true. So again your arguing in the absence of facts and more informed people than yourself have said it didn't happen. Just because Marshall Faulk (who it turns out is a scumbag sexual assaulter) complained  and cried for years (while his former teammate Kurt Warner laughed about it) because he couldn't comprehend how a team was prepared to play his teams offense, doesn't mean that anything nefarious was happening. Again there was no reason for the media to protect the Patriots and retract the story even if you don't trust the NFL.

As far as Maningini with Spygate, nobody disputes that. The Patriots don't even. However it was an unenforced rule until 2006, and even your boy Mangini said he regrets reporting it because people like you blew it up into something bigger than it was. And it was his team that was effected by it. But yeah Spygate was a thing. So I mean knock yourself out if you think that cost people games. Plenty of great Super Bowl winning coaches game to Belichick's defense on that one. 

I mean I get how it would make someone feel better to believe the Patriots are big bad boogie men that stole wins from their teams and that's why they are so good. People said the same thing about a lot of great teams in this league. Success breeds... well you know

[dtait93]

Also, it's fun to have a team like New England in the league. It makes it so much more fun when there is a team the entire world hates and is cheering to see lose. It's just like the Miami Heat teams with Wade, Bosh, and Lebron. When they lost everybody loved it, the same way everybody loved it when the Giants beat the Pats in 07 and 11. When there's a team to hate there becomes a rooting interest outside of the fanbases teams that are playing. Having a perceived villain is good for the sport.

[808]

I wonder why this thread was started right after the Eagles won the NFCCG?

Maybe because the major underdog Eagles, lead by the lack of experience Foles, could maybe knock off the defending champs? 

[Non-Issue]

As an LA Rams fan, you know who I was rooting for.

[Non-Issue]

Just now, 808 said:

I wonder why this thread was started right after the Eagles won the NFCCG?

Maybe because the major underdog Eagles, lead by the lack of experience Foles, could maybe knock off the defending champs? 

I am sure a lot of people were seeing the parallels as soon as we knew it was going to be either a Case Keenum led Vikes or a Nick Foles led Eagles.

Wouldnt break my heart to see the Eagles finally win one. But I will be rooting for the Pats. Just so I can wallow in the collective schadenfreude. 

[808]

1 minute ago, Non-Issue said:

I am sure a lot of people were seeing the parallels as soon as we knew it was going to be either a Case Keenum led Vikes or a Nick Foles led Eagles.

Wouldnt break my heart to see the Eagles finally win one.

True, I personally would have rooted against the Pats regardless of who represented the NFC. 

 

[Non-Issue]

Just now, 808 said:

True, I personally would have rooted against the Pats regardless of who represented the NFC. 

 

I gotta root for the Pats because I enjoy watching the Pats haters lose their mess. But it's really a win/win for me. I either get to see the  miserable haters get more miserable or I get to see the underdog come in and beat the evil empire.

Good luck to you guys. 

[Livewire]

Troy Brown is the name I remember from the Pats/Steelers game. He did it all in that contest. I also remember the stupid penalty Troy Edwards had in which they had to punt again that lead to the Brown punt return TD.

[Plat2]

2 hours ago, lancerman said:

It's funny cause I see it similarly but I see it like this. 

01-06 amazing secondary

07-13 horrible secondary

14-17 very solid secondary

Yeah the secondary made the play that put the nail in the coffin in yesterdays game.

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

There's about a dozen reasons for why. A player on the offense could have given away a tell on the type of play with a motion, could have been a play that the Patriots have seen on other teams before or similar types of plays before.... etc. Either way your basing it off a good well coached defense being able to adjust to an offensive formation and guessing the type of play correctly. If that was impossible, teams would just make new plays every game and they'd all catch the defense off guard. It's just very naive and ignores the fundamental nature of football. 

And again I would like to state you once that you have completely ignored that every single person whether with the NFL or with the media that looked into it said it wasn't true. So again your arguing in the absence of facts and more informed people than yourself have said it didn't happen. Just because Marshall Faulk (who it turns out is a scumbag sexual assaulter) complained  and cried for years (while his former teammate Kurt Warner laughed about it) because he couldn't comprehend how a team was prepared to play his teams offense, doesn't mean that anything nefarious was happening. Again there was no reason for the media to protect the Patriots and retract the story even if you don't trust the NFL.

As far as Maningini with Spygate, nobody disputes that. The Patriots don't even. However it was an unenforced rule until 2006, and even your boy Mangini said he regrets reporting it because people like you blew it up into something bigger than it was. And it was his team that was effected by it. But yeah Spygate was a thing. So I mean knock yourself out if you think that cost people games. Plenty of great Super Bowl winning coaches game to Belichick's defense on that one. 

I mean I get how it would make someone feel better to believe the Patriots are big bad boogie men that stole wins from their teams and that's why they are so good. People said the same thing about a lot of great teams in this league. Success breeds... well you know

Except, you know, protecting the NFL as a multi-million dollar brand and all.

The NFL back then was not as big as it is today. It wasn't small, but it also wasn't untouchable. If it comes out that the winners of the Superbowl cheated, that is hugely detrimental to the brand of the league. Knowing that any game could be rigged, fixed, or unfair at that time could have plummeted the company and made a lot of the audience lose interest. After what we've seen from Roger Goodell over his career, you honestly don't think it's within the realm of possibility that he just chose to sweep it under the rug so that the league didn't suffer a setback? Oh, and then there's this which ESPN reported...

"The Patriots told the league officials they possessed eight tapes containing game footage along with a half-inch-thick stack of notes of signals and other scouting information belonging to [Patriots football research director Ernie] Adams, Glaser says. The league officials watched portions of the tapes. Goodell was contacted, and he ordered the tapes and notes to be destroyed, but the Patriots didn't want any of it to leave the building, arguing that some of it was obtained legally and thus was proprietary. So in a stadium conference room, Pash and the other NFL executives stomped the videotapes into small pieces and fed Adams' notes into a shredder, [Kraft Group VP Robyn] Glaser says. She recalls picking up the shards of plastic from the smashed Beta tapes off the floor and throwing them away."

But I guess ESPN just made that up. That's obviously more plausible than the NFL making something up I guess.

As for your first point, the odds that a defense could see a formation shift or movement that film has never shown a team do, and be able to switch to a pre-designed audible to match it perfectly are really low. I find it HIGHLY unlikely they could have pulled that off multiple times.

Does it really matter if Mangini regrets reporting it? Newsflash: It happened. Period. Whether or not you want to consider it a big deal or not, the Patriots were caught red handed. You honestly believe this is the only time they've done it?

Literally the only thing I agree with in your entire post is that Faulk is a scumbag.