TCMD Discussion!!

[mountainpd]

I think two things would help this problem. 

1) the signing bonus is spread across the whole contract.

2) my preferrd option would be to put a yearly increase limit on the roster bonus year on year and then make it no more than say 50% of Base salary.

[Trojan]

I think to discuss it in depth we'd need to know the math for awarding the players. The Solder-type is a backloading thing. I think that's removed if max deals are 4 years, QB exception for 5 years. For awarding Bell to the Patriots over Buccs when it was:
10 mil less year one. 4x less in signing bonus, and less in guarantees, and less in APY. I think that could hold another issue. I don't understand how every aspect of contract value can be won and the player is then awarded to the lesser contract. I'm not asking for Bell or anything like that, I'm asking because I don't think I've seen that situation pop up previously and it doesn't make sense to me. The only way to understand if it's a 5th year issue or something else would be to have the formula for net present value or whatever the name was for the awarding calculation.

$17,035,000 year one, 8,000,000 signing bonus, ~14 APY
$7,775,000 year one,  2,000,000 signing bonus, ~13 APY
That's much stranger to sign with the cheaper deal (by a lot), than the 60 mil last year of Solder.  Solder is straight forward as an issue with max contract length, using the final years to manipulate the value in a false manner to get the player awarded. Bell was a difference of a 4 year deal v. 5 year. The 4 year was better in every possible metric, other than not having an unguaranteed 5th year. Something is strange with that one.

[bcb1213]

easiest solution is just to do signing bonus and salary and skip the other stuff

the highest paid year can't be more than 100 percent of lowest paid year

[BowserBroncos]

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

be more realistic then letting him just drop one...haha.  but i think just making him keep both is the way to go.  I'm sure McCcarron would take that money to backup

No problem sticking with both....QB was always my main target and that's why I bidded on both.

[RedGold]

1 minute ago, Trojan said:

I think that's removed if max deals are 4 years, QB exception for 5 years. 

I really think this is your best option.

To get a normal APY showing in year one you need to operate on the -2 theory.

Most NFL deals are built with the idea of looking at them 2 years prior to them expiring.

6 years = 4 years

5 years = 3 years 

3 years = 1 year

2 years = Low year 1, with usual Roster bonuses in year 2 that can be converted if they player shows promise.

[EaglesPeteC]

We are not trying to overhaul the system. We are looking for the quickest and easiest fix

[winitall]

5 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I think to discuss it in depth we'd need to know the math for awarding the players. The Solder-type is a backloading thing. I think that's removed if max deals are 4 years, QB exception for 5 years. For awarding Bell to the Patriots over Buccs when it was:
10 mil less year one. 4x less in signing bonus, and less in guarantees, and less in APY. I think that could hold another issue. I don't understand how every aspect of contract value can be won and the player is then awarded to the lesser contract. I'm not asking for Bell or anything like that, I'm asking because I don't think I've seen that situation pop up previously and it doesn't make sense to me. The only way to understand if it's a 5th year issue or something else would be to have the formula for net present value or whatever the name was for the awarding calculation.

$17,035,000 year one, 8,000,000 signing bonus, ~14 APY
$7,775,000 year one,  2,000,000 signing bonus, ~13 APY
That's much stranger to sign with the cheaper deal (by a lot), than the 60 mil last year of Solder.  Solder is straight forward as an issue with max contract length, using the final years to manipulate the value in a false manner to get the player awarded. Bell was a difference of a 4 year deal v. 5 year. The 4 year was better in every possible metric, other than not having an unguaranteed 5th year. Something is strange with that one.

Aren’t contracts awarded based on the adjusted contract amount?  We can see that formula in the workbooks...

[bcb1213]

2 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

We are not trying to overhaul the system. We are looking for the quickest and easiest fix

i think highest paid year can't be more than a100 percent increase of lowest paid year solves the dilemma pretty easily

 

ie lfirst year is 5 mill total, last year can't be more than 10 mill total

[jonnguy2015]

9 hours ago, jch1911 said:

Solder's contract

	Base Salary	Base Guar.	Prorated	Roster Bonus	Cap #
2018	$6,000,000		$10,000,000		$16,000,000
2019	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$10,900,000	$22,400,000
2020	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$17,500,000	$29,000,000
2021	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$26,000,000	$37,500,000
2022	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$37,000,000	$48,500,000
2023	$63,000,000				$63,000,000

In essence, it is a 3 year, $67.4M deal ($22.5M APY / $50M SB ). 

If Solder does not make roster in 2021 (e.g. injury, retirement, etc.), Texans pay him $20M that year to walk away instead of paying $37.5M.

A ridiculous sum indeed, but not an insane amount. (Ludicrous speed?)

We have a shiny new QB to protect and a small window to get at that Lombardi.

As I said before IF HE LEAVES NE, I think he will sign with Houston (cancer centers for his son [prayers up!], no state income tax, familiar system, etc.) for around $14M APY IRL.

But I was playing to win that signing and I did.

EDIT: Also for those of you who say that is QB $$$

We will be paying our starting QB

2018: $3.2M

2019: $3.8M

2020: $4.4M

2021: $14M

So we took the savings from the QB position and invested in the best LT on the FA market.   Think of it that way.  Once again, Daryl Morey said if you want to win championships, you have to up your risk profile.  That's what we did.  G'nite

I'm guessing you plan to release him before he gets paid $63 million right?

[IDOG_det]

1 minute ago, bcb1213 said:

the highest paid year can't be more than 100 percent of lowest paid year

Little rules like these work for large contracts but screw over smaller contracts, especially for teams with less cap space.

The issue is that the contracts can be increased exponentially, which can lead to the possibility of a 6th year worth 60 million dollars. The issue won't be solved by changing the money from roster bonuses to base salary, the cap hit will still be able to be increased. Smaller contracts benefit from the ability to be increased exponentially because that's how they work in the NFL. It's not too unrealistic if 2 million turns into 6 million, but it's an issue if 20 million turns into 60 million. Ideally the % you can increase from year to year would decrease as the cap hit increases. 

I don't think anything more should be changed because any small change won't actually help much. Eliminating the 6th year is a good idea. People just need to be responsible and not overpay plays by 150 million or send out two offers to high priced QB's in the same round. 

[Trojan]

3 minutes ago, winitall said:

Aren’t contracts awarded based on the adjusted contract amount?  We can see that formula in the workbooks...

Then if I'm reading it right the adjusted contract amount is simply the sum of 93% of the base salary, plus bonuses. That doesn't account for money up front being worth more than money that 100% won't be realized at the end. It's always been discussed that money up front and bonuses count more -- that formula is weighted towards total base salary (including and desiring  ballooning) unguaranteed final years to drastically influence the base salary portion of the calculation.

[BowserBroncos]

4 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

or send out two offers to high priced QB's in the same round. 

And what I should do? My plan was always to grab my QB in FA, no NFL team searching for QB will offer a QB a contract and wait for a response and let other possible target slip by not offer them a contract.

The only difference on this that the team is can not pull their offer out when one of the QBs signs - and I'm not complaining.

I assumed the risk when I've bidded for both....this only happened because no one made a bid on Cousins....if I had gave him the exact expected APY and the exact SB I would have won the bid.....I just couldn't figured that could happen.

[DTMW78]

All Houston had to do was make him the highest paid tackle and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If you really want the guy that's all you have to do more often than not.

 

[squire12]

22 minutes ago, jonnguy2015 said:

Solder's contract

	Base Salary	Base Guar.	Prorated	Roster Bonus	Cap #
2018	$6,000,000		$10,000,000		$16,000,000
2019	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$10,900,000	$22,400,000
2020	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$17,500,000	$29,000,000
2021	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$26,000,000	$37,500,000
2022	$1,500,000		$10,000,000	$37,000,000	$48,500,000
2023	$63,000,000				$63,000,000

In essence, it is a 3 year, $67.4M deal ($22.5M APY / $50M SB ). 

This is the issue with the NPV.  It still counts the last 3 years of the base salary when in reality, the money the player is most likely to see is the SB and the first 3 years of the base salary.

The remaining base and roster bonus $$ is just fluff.  HOU can cut Solder after the 3rd year and take the dead cap of $20M and save $17.5M in 2021 and the other remaining cap space.  

 

I brought this up last year and it went no where.  Looks like we are back to it again.  

Trying to remove the roster or workout bonus and it just shifts the money over to the base salary and it does nothing different.

[PurpleMugen]

^Taking a look at that contract for Solder for the first time:

Serious question, do people actually enjoy acquiring a player like that? Does it even have any fun factor when the layout is that comical? I wouldn't even enjoy that. It'd feel empty knowing there's exactly zero chance that could ever play out in real life.