lancerman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 9:29 AM, Breesus mode said: Try harder. You can definitively list Montana, Brady, and Manning above him. Although I don't think Rodgers or Young quite have the longevity to be firmly above Brees, you can put both above Brees. And Brees should be ahead of Favre. So that puts him at #6. I think Brees suffers more than anything from era. He's played at the same time as the best QB ever in bulk stats, the most efficient QB ever, then the winningest QB ever who has the best overall combination of both. I'd argue at Brees' peak he was as good as any of them. The truth is he was saddled with some of the worst defenses in the league's history and it kept him from winning enough and quite frankly made him look less competitive than he really was. He also got screwed out of an MVP and had the misfortune of having another MVP caliber year in Rodgers best year. I think consensus wise, Brady, Manning, and Rodgers will end up being regarded as higher than him unless he can finish his career off breaking all of Manning's records and getting another Super Bowl. In which case he probably pushes past Rodgers. But right now I think if you asked most football people he'd be 4th just because of a lack of accomplishments. Which isn't entirely fair. Then I think Montana and Marino would clearly be ahead of him as well. That's 5. Unitas makes 6 and he deserves to be over him as well for influence. If you count pre Super Bowl I think you have to add Graham for what he did and was in his era. So that's 7. Then Baugh and Luckman. Which gets you to 9. Those are two of the most important QB's ever. Then for the last spot you have him fighting for it with Starr (who has 5 NFL championships in his own right), Staubach who was the best QB of the 70's and won 2 SB's. Tarkenton who was the best statistical QB of the 70's and went to multiple SB's. Bradshaw who has 4 Super Bowls but not the stats. Favre who was the iron man of the NFL for years and broke a ton of records who also has multiple MVP's and a Super Bowl plus another appearance. Elway who for some reason historians love. Young who was basically Rodgers before Rodgers. I'm willing to concede that he has a case against any of those guys. However, I think it'll be very difficult to think he'll go down as a consensus top 10. Many people thought Marino was a guy who could be the GOAT and now he's fringe top 5 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LieutenantGains Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I got an idea from someone here a while ago and started working on a complete list of the playoff success of all QB's. I used a point system of: 1 for making the playoffs, 2 for reaching the second round, 3 for the championship round, 4 for the SB and 5 for winning the SB Below is how the top of the list came out so far Player Yrs/Pts/Pts per season Tom Brady 16/54/3.38 Roger Staubach 8/25/3.13 Joe Montana 12/34/2.83 Russell Wilson 6/15/2.50 Terry Bradshaw 13/31/2.38 Peyton Manning 18/41/2.28 Jim Kelly 11/24/2.18 Bart Starr 14/29/2.07 Troy Aikman 12/24/2.00 Norm Van Brocklin 10/20/2.00 Steve Young 10/20/2.00 John Elway 16/31/1.94 Ben Roethlisberger 14/27/1.93 Aaron Rodgers 10/19/1.90 Johnny Unitas 14/25/1.79 Joe Flacco 10/17/1.70 George Blanda 9/14/1.56 Bob Griese 14/21/1.50 Bobby Layne 13/19/1.46 Colin Kaepernick 5/7/1.40 Brett Favre 19/26/1.37 Staubach continues to be the most underrated QB ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 So Flacco and Kaep are both better QBs than Brees and Favre based on yoru list... I think it might be a little flawed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x0x Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Well all-all time you got Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman & Johnny Unitas as transcendent QBs of their time. Then you got Montana, Marino & Brady clear ahead although could argue Brees is pretty damn close to Marino all things considered. So that pretty much picks it up there as he's somewhere in 7-8 position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lod01 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Easily. The most accurate QB in history with the ability to scramble, read a defense and a strong arm. This is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Serious question though, besides playing in Indy his nearly whole career and the hype of being the best QB since whoever, what makes Manning so much better than Brees? At least in his time with the Saints Brees has had similar if not better numbers than Manning and with fewer weapons. The majority of Manning's career he was paired with 2 1st round top 10 WRs, a 1st round top 10 pass catching TE, and a good-great OL. His running game was a little sketchy at times, but much like Brees they often used the passing game to supplement the running game as well. Heck even in Denver Manning had great weapons plus the top defense. Brees since he arrived at New Orleans has had a good-great OL, a solid at worst running game, but his weapons at WR and TE were never highly touted 1st round picks. His best receiving options have been Colston (7th), Lance Moore (UDFA), Jimmy Graham (3rd, underperformed in SEA after being traded), Jeremy Shockey (traded for, hurt a lot), Brandon Cooks (1st but got traded to NE this year for a 1st in return), Michael Thomas (3rd), Brandon Coleman (UDFA), Willie Snead (UDFA), and the list goes on. If you want to talk about hte RBs that Brees had in Bush(#2 overall), Kamara (3rd), Duece (1st), Ingram (1st), Pierre Thomas (UDFA), Chris Ivory (UDFA), Indy also invested in RBs such as Trent Richardson, Addai, Edge, etc though they didn't work out like the Saints have gotten their RBs to. Just amazing that it's like a foregone conclusion that Manning is better, but Brees has put up similar numbers, will likely end up breaking all of Manning's numbers, and actually beat Manning head-to-head in a Super Bowl. This isn't like trying to compare Eli or Foles to Brady because they beat him in a SB, they don't also have the numbers to back up the SB H2H, Brees has that in comparison to Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikes635 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 my top ten looks like this and I know most don't agree. 1. T. Brady 2. D. Marino 3. J. Montana 4. J. Unitas 5. O. Graham 6. P. Manning 7. J. Kelly 8. F. Tarkenton 9. D. Brees 10. B. Starr On the bubble A. Rodgers, J. Elway, and S. Young I know kelly and marino have not won a superbowl! give me a different reason they shouldn't be on this list. What about Farve! Please give me a break the only credit I give farve is he kept getting up and going out there but this is not an iron man list. J. namath Ha he threw more picks then TD's shouldn't even be in the HOF. Any other takes I will listen too maybe you have something I could consider when I'm doing this list in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 He's in my top ten, but I don't include guys from eras older than the 70s. I don't think it's fair to do that. I barely think it's fair to compare this era with Montana/Marino/Elway era. Each era should stand on it's own in a perfect world, but that's no fun, so I'm willing to go back a little further. Someone made the comment that he won't be top ten 50 years from now. Well, that is the nature of how things work. The longer the sport goes on, the more QBs you're gonna have fighting for the top ten. So 50 years from now, the top 20 list will be as impressive as the current top ten list. And comparing those QBs with Brees will be silly just like comparing Brees with Otto Graham is silly. Well, perhaps not quite so, depending on how much the game actually changes, but it certainly would be a futile exercise. Brees has had some bad luck in the MVP area. At his peak, he was as good as any QB in the league. Historically bad defense has prevented more postseason success than most other top ten QBs. He's lost several postseason games after driving for late 4th quarter leads due to last second defensive failures. As good as Rodgers is(GOAT level talent), he and Brees have the same number of superbowl wins. It's a team game, and rings should only matter to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffering_Bills Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 At least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJerseypaint Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Drew Brees is a guy that is consistently overlooked because he happens to play in the same era as Brady, Manning, and Rodgers. He has a ridiculous stat line and throwing to who? Colston and Jimmy Graham? Cooks and Thomas? Colston became a 7th round phenom with Brees; Jimmy hasn't been able to match his NO production; Cooks faired better as a #2 with Brees than as a #1 with Brady; and Thomas is a beast, but would he be just as productive without Brees? Yeah, it took him getting out of Marty's feed it to LT system and into Peyton's pass heavy system, but no QB is throwing for 5K playing Marty Ball. There have been 9 instances of a QB throwing for over 5K yards, 5 of them are Brees. That's insane. I don't care if he's "stat padding". He is still out there, throwing the ball against an NFL defense and tearing them up. If that number was easy to hit there would be a whole lot more names on that list, and maybe even the most elite QBs would appear more than once. Give the man his due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jontat83 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Rodgers has never thrown for 5000 yards but I know he is a better player than Brees, eyeball test and accolades confirms that. Yardage isn't the be all end all, especially when not all teams have the benefit of playing in a dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, jontat83 said: Rodgers has never thrown for 5000 yards but I know he is a better player than Brees, eyeball test and accolades confirms that. Yardage isn't the be all end all, especially when not all teams have the benefit of playing in a dome. Who said yardage is the be all end all? It is however still an impressive accolade to surpass 5,000 yards that many times, and likely be in contention for all time passing yardage leader when he retires. Thankfully Brees has much more than yardage going for him. How about that combo of yards, and completion percentage. If I'm not mistaken he holds the record for completion percentage in a season, and has had several other top 5/top 10 ever seasons in completion percentage. Or how about the fact that he elevates his game even higher in the postseason compared to the regular season? In the postseason he averages 324 passing yards per game (13 games), 100.7 QB Rating in the playoffs, 1.7 interception percentage (2.5 interception percentage in his career during regular season), 5.4 touchdown percentage (5.3 touchdown percentage in his career during regular season). I firmly believe there is a much different narrative for Brees if he had just an average defense for most of his time with the Saints. There's been several articles showing how bad Brees has had it compared to other top QB's. Brees is certainly a top 10 QB all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddyboy Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 The problem with these arguments is that video of more recent players makes them look superior. Montana played his best almost 30 years ago. Bradshaw, Staubach, Tarkenton and Griese played 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Seriously, except for Brady and Montana, an awful lot of great QB's can be bunched together. Sure, the current generation will all believe their guys are the best, but in different eras, it just does not hold true. Brees is certainly in the conversation, but the passing rules are so easy in this generation, that all their stats are really suspect, if they ever had to play against bump and run defenses all over the field, not just for 5 years, stickum on the DB's hands, tackling at the head which dominated WR's ability to catch a pass over the middle of the field. It is simply a totally different game of football in this generation from the past, making all current stats uncomparable to past ages. The only consistent is Super Bowl wins or at least Championship wins, that can be used to judge QB play past or present, stats will never tell you squat at any position!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddyboy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 How good was Roger Staubach? He graduated from Annapolis in 1964 and served his full 5 year Navy commitment before entering the NFL in 1969. The Dallas Cowboys were an expansion team in 1960 with Tom Landry as the coach. Staubach was drafted by The Cowboys in '64, understanding they would wait 5 years to play him. How many teams would draft any player as a future pick pending a 5 year wait? Staubach played them into 5 SBs, winning 2. The 1960s and 80s were non SB eras in Dallas, until Jimmy Johnson picked Troy Aikman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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