Valhalla Villager: News, Rumors and Gossip

[Ozzy]

https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/top_news/vikings-front-office-ranked-3rd-worst-in-nfl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Not sure I would rank them that low.  But they passed on Kyle Hamilton, Jordan Davis, Jameson Williams and Trent McDuffie in the 1st.  All players they could have used and maybe Lewis Cine will turn out to be better than Kyle Hamilton but only way I see that happening is if Kyle Hamilton has injury problems throughout his career.  And trading to division rivals exactly what they need is also a question giving the Lions and Packers two legit deep threat big time athletes at WR.

 

Harrison Phillips was a solid signing, not bringing in another TE was a mistake.  The OL they brought in was ok, got some competitors to fight for that other OG spot but not getting another center could have been a mistake.  Not getting a more dominating NT could be a mistake, maybe Tomlinson can do it but I think they could have got a better one, and they passed on Travis Jones in the 2nd and that could have been a massive mistake but will see how Tomlinson does at NT.  Z. Smith of course was a good signing but will he stay healthy and not totally sure about Patrick being brought back as great, he was so so last year and possibly worse this next year but will see.   

 

Taking Brian Asamoah over Chad Muma, Dean, Christian Harris, Travis Jones, Jelani Woods, Marcus Jones, DeMarvin Leal and Malik Willis could be a massive massive massive mistake and there were so many options there but will see how it plays out.   And just a few picks earlier they took Ingram where they could have took one of these guys as well, and why take Ingram when they already signed in free agency Jesse Davis, Reed in free agency and both have playing experience and already have Wyatt Davis and Udoh but apparently Wyatt Davis is awful which is pretty surprising considering how good he was early in his college career.  

 

Cine, Booth and Sullivan will be really telling just how good those guys are.  Because it could have been a different group of players lead by Kyle Hamilton, Cam Taylor-Britt or Mike Hughes, PJ Williams or better yet Bryce Callahan who signed for less than Sullivan did and has experience in the DCs system.    The Vikings UDFA signings were not great either outside of Tre Turner but he will have a hard time making the roster.  

 

But will see how it all plays out.  

 

 

And apparently the ranking does not take into account coaching hires which was basically hire who Kwesi has worked with in the past and or Green Bay guys.  

[swede700]

It's hard to take seriously rankings that appear to rate the new front offices solely on perception of the moves they've made when there hasn't been any actual play on the field yet. 

I'm waiting until then to make any sort of judgment, because just like I said about Spielman drafts, they always seemed to get As on the drafts on those days, but then as we've seen over the past 3 years or so that they were closer to an F than they were an A.  In this case, I imagine most people probably would give them a C for their decisions thus far, but we won't know anything until they step on the field and get some actual results to evaluate. 

[vike daddy]

what? evaluate decisions made for future actions after the actions have taken place? you mean, see if results meet, exceed, or are below expectations in reality?

shocking method of analysis.

[swede700]

5 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

what? evaluate decisions made for future actions after the actions have taken place? you mean, see if results meet, exceed, or are below expectations in reality?

shocking method of analysis.

It is shocking, considering how the world works these days.  It seems in all forums of life that people have already made their judgments prior to the evidence being presented.  😉

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

It's hard to take seriously rankings that appear to rate the new front offices solely on perception of the moves they've made when there hasn't been any actual play on the field yet. 

I'm waiting until then to make any sort of judgment, because just like I said about Spielman drafts, they always seemed to get As on the drafts on those days, but then as we've seen over the past 3 years or so that they were closer to an F than they were an A.  In this case, I imagine most people probably would give them a C for their decisions thus far, but we won't know anything until they step on the field and get some actual results to evaluate. 

Sure but that late 2nd and early 3rd round pick could really end up biting them in the *** considering who they passed on not to mention the 1st rounder.  But yeah will wait and see.

 

Sure Spielman had some drafts that looked good on paper but in both cases they go with quantity over quality, just pile up picks and someone has to hit right but that has not always been the case.   Still I cannot grasp passing on Kyle Hamilton, sure Lewis Cine could be good but is it really that hard to look good at safety if the defense you play for is absolutely stacked in the front 7?  He timed great but what Georgia player did not time great.  

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, swede700 said:

It is shocking, considering how the world works these days.  It seems in all forums of life that people have already made their judgments prior to the evidence being presented.  😉

It also seems you probably have no opinion or knowledge on the players I mentioned that they passed on outside of what you read that someone else might have said online somewhere.  

 

 

Yes it could be a bit early but according to those around here what Vikings got an A draft and UDFA signing group?  Sure hope that is not the consensus because it was more like a C if not lower.  

[vike daddy]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 Still I cannot grasp passing on Kyle Hamilton...

i cannot grasp how you continue to talk about it at every opportunity. didn't 20+ teams pass on Randy Moss? didn't every team pass on Tom Brady, multiple times?

the NFL Draft is filled with missed chances, and then with supposed sure fire first round picks who went nowhere.

[swede700]

I didn't feel the need to discuss Kyle Hamilton, because I've never been impressed with him...and I feel I made that pretty clear prior to the draft.  In fact, I wasn't that high on any of the names you suggested.  2 of the players I was most interested in were taken earlier in Gardner and Stingley.  The only other one that I was really interested in was Johnson.  After those 3, throw them all in a bag and I didn't really care.  Personally, I didn't view McDuffie as a 1st round talent...we'll see how he does with the Chiefs, but I didn't mind it when we passed on Peters for Waynes either (which was the last time we passed on a  Washington CB that the Chiefs ended up taking), so I can't imagine I'll feel any different this time.

In the end, Kyle Hamilton may turn out to be fine, maybe even a very good one...and Baltimore does give him his best shot at doing so.  Anywhere else, based on his skill-set, I don't think he would...and that includes here.  Here, he'd be another Tyrell Johnson, as far as I'm concerned.  

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

I didn't feel the need to discuss Kyle Hamilton, because I've never been impressed with him...and I feel I made that pretty clear prior to the draft.  In fact, I wasn't that high on any of the names you suggested.  2 of the players I was most interested in were taken earlier in Gardner and Stingley.  The only other one that I was really interested in was Johnson.  After those 3, throw them all in a bag and I didn't really care.  Personally, I didn't view McDuffie as a 1st round talent...we'll see how he does with the Chiefs, but I didn't mind it when we passed on Peters for Waynes either (which was the last time we passed on a  Washington CB that the Chiefs ended up taking), so I can't imagine I'll feel any different this time.

In the end, Kyle Hamilton may turn out to be fine, maybe even a very good one...and Baltimore does give him his best shot at doing so.  Anywhere else, based on his skill-set, I don't think he would...and that includes here.  Here, he'd be another Tyrell Johnson, as far as I'm concerned.  

What exactly makes Kyle Hamilton like Tyrell Johnson?  Other than Tyrell Johnson was a failed safety for the Vikings.

 

Tyrell Johnson is not 6-4, Kyle Hamilton is, Tyrell Johnson is not 220 pounds, Kyle Hamilton is, Tyrell Johnson was and has never been a ball hawking safety with great anticipation skills, Kyle Hamilton is.  Tyree Johnson did not play a high level of competition in college, Kyle Hamilton did, Tyrell Johnson did not have great range and coverage skills as a safety and has limited anticipation skills, Kyle Hamilton does and Tyrell Johnson did not have more than one injury issue in college, Kyle Hamilton did.  That is the only reason why Kyle Hamilton fell in the draft is because of his injury issues but in terms of a hybrid safety with range, size and ball skills dude can play and he is not an awful tackler either and his length is simply rare at the position and it is not that easy to find a safety with those ball skills and that kind of size.

 

 

What exactly makes Brian Asamoah better than Muma, Dean and Christian Harris?  Or Travis Jones for that matter, why get another ILB when you already have Hicks and Kendricks on the roster?  

 

You cane have your opinion though.  But the above article shows I am not the only one that is questioning the moves the Vikings have made most recently.  Oh it is too early to judge, well it is the off season and based on the moves made there are more than a few questionable moves that the GM has made so far be in player choices, what FA moves they made, UDFA moves they made, players they drafted or coaches they did or did not bring in.  

[swede700]

My reference was solely that I feel Hamilton would have been a failure like Tyrell was, nothing physically, as they certainly were not similar in a physical nature.  

As far as Asamoah, there certainly was a need for ILB regardless of Hicks and Kendricks.  He's a 3rd round pick, not a 1st round pick that would be expected to start.  You can make the argument as to whether he was the right one or not, but again, no one knows how any of these players will turn out.  I probably would have preferred Dean, since he was largely projected in the 1st round, but Asamoah, Muma or Harris?  Throw them in a bag and mix them around...it's about team fit at that point and they felt that his style fit better in what they were looking for than either Harris or Muma.  

Edited June 27, 2022 by swede700

[Ozzy]

49 minutes ago, swede700 said:

My reference was solely that I feel Hamilton would have been a failure like Tyrell was, nothing physically, as they certainly were not similar in a physical nature.  

As far as Asamoah, there certainly was a need for ILB regardless of Hicks and Kendricks.  He's a 3rd round pick, not a 1st round pick that would be expected to start.  You can make the argument as to whether he was the right one or not, but again, no one knows how any of these players will turn out.  I probably would have preferred Dean, since he was largely projected in the 1st round, but Asamoah, Muma or Harris?  Throw them in a bag and mix them around...it's about team fit at that point and they felt that his style fit better in what they were looking for than either Harris or Muma.  

Christian Harris was arguably a 1st or 2nd round pick before the season and ran a faster 40 time than Asamoah and had an outstanding game probably his best all season in the National Title game.  Granted he had some what of a down year but athletically he is better than Asamoah and Muma is also better athletic with better feel in coverage and the dude had a 40" vertical and benched 225 27 times.  Both are athletically better than Asamoah who arguably was only drafted on his athletic ability and quickness at ILB but both Harris and Muma are arguably more athletic and well rounded players.  And I still say Travis Jones passing on him is a massive mistake considering they need a quality NT and hell he could have been a monster DE in a 3/4 as well and was arguably the 2nd best NT in the entire draft.  Dean yeah I agree I would prefer him but injury issues I assume scared people off and the fact he did not run the 40 or workout really.  Still on the field the dude can fly and has insane range and great leadership ability.  

Asamoah to me was a 4th or 5th round pick if not later than that, he was good on OU but was surrounded by a lot of talent and guys who play out of position a bit, just move corners to safeties, safeties to linebackers and linebackers to defensive ends etc.  Still I cannot see him playing a ton this year unless Hicks or Kendricks gets hurt and even to say that is a major  need on the team not so sure about that either.  They still have Dye, Lynch, Surratt and Connelly who obviously they hate all those dudes otherwise why get Asamoah.  Granted Surratt probably will be played at 3/4 OLB which is where he was more in college rushing off the edge so will be interesting how he does there.  

 

But yeah will see how it all plays out and yes it is all just projections at this point but it is the off season, what else you supposed to do other than project.

[AP_allday2869]

Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth > Kyle Hamilton. Hamilton's speed is a legit issue, and the film does say that. I think Hamilton will be good, but he is quite overrated. If he was as good as people on this forum say he is, he would have went higher than #14. People think he is the second coming of Ed Reed, which is crazy talk.

 

Williams will be a beast, but why are people actually scared of Christian Watson? There has never been a skill position player to ever be truly successful in the league, not to mention he'll be going against the big boys at CB, where he played against mainly scrubs in D2. He won't be effective for at least 2 years.

Edited June 27, 2022 by AP_allday2869

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, AP_allday2869 said:

Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth > Kyle Hamilton. Hamilton's speed is a legit issue, and the film does say that. I think Hamilton will be good, but he is quite overrated. If he was as good as people on this forum say he is, he would have went higher than #14. People think he is the second coming of Ed Reed, which is crazy talk.

 

Williams will be a beast, but why are people actually scared of Christian Watson? There has never been a skill position player to ever be truly successful in the league, not to mention he'll be going against the big boys at CB, where he played against mainly scrubs in D2. He won't be effective for at least 2 years.

What the hell are you talking about?  Christian Watson played for North Dakota State University of FCS school and is just one step down from Division 1.  It is not a Division 2 school at all and they play FCS teams and NDSU also plays Division 1 teams as well but have not recently because of COVID and teams probably want wanting to play them.  So Christian Watson was not a scrub and if you watched him play he is a big time athlete with game breaking ability just like Jameson Williams.  Also not many dudes run a 4.36 40 at 6-4, he is an elite level athlete.  As for never have been a "skill position player to ever be truly successful in the league" I assume you are talking about "D2" because if you are talking about FCS schools ummm Cooper freaking Kupp much or did you just forget about him the Eastern Washington prospect.  

 

Maybe getting Booth will help but the dude was hurt most of last season similar to Kyle Hamilton and again Hamilton would not have dropped if he was not hurt last year and the year before on and off.  If Booth is a star sure that greatly helps but Lewis Cine I would be surprised if he is better than Kyle Hamilton long term and my guess is Daxton Hill and Jalen Pitre could be better than him as well.  I would have lost my mind if they would have passed on Daxton Hill and took Cine, Hill is a stud and dude could be a legit corner if he wanted to as well.  

 

Kyle Hamilton is not Ed Reed but for a dude that big and that long to have those ball skills is flat out rare and he is not an awful tackler either.  But the guy got hurt and sure his workout was not great but when healthy on the field he was all over making impact plays for Notre Dame.  

[Duluther]

2 hours ago, AP_allday2869 said:

Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth > Kyle Hamilton. Hamilton's speed is a legit issue, and the film does say that. I think Hamilton will be good, but he is quite overrated. If he was as good as people on this forum say he is, he would have went higher than #14. People think he is the second coming of Ed Reed, which is crazy talk.

 

Williams will be a beast, but why are people actually scared of Christian Watson? There has never been a skill position player to ever be truly successful in the league, not to mention he'll be going against the big boys at CB, where he played against mainly scrubs in D2. He won't be effective for at least 2 years.

I don’t agree on Cine and Booth > Hamilton.

The tape does not back up that Hamilton is as slow as his times indicate.

I have major reservations on Booth’s long term health status.

Also, this doesn’t account for the rest of the trade where we lost value.

[Ozzy]

30 minutes ago, Duluther said:

I don’t agree on Cine and Booth > Hamilton.

The tape does not back up that Hamilton is as slow as his times indicate.

I have major reservations on Booth’s long term health status.

Also, this doesn’t account for the rest of the trade where we lost value.

Agreed and he does not seem too slow in these clips, again I say he dropped in the draft because of his injury history and lack of elite play this past season because he was simply not on the field as much as he should have been and that injury also hurt him at the combine.  And listening to the kid he is an outstanding student of the game and has top of the line character.