turtle28 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, MKnight82 said: The moron that let him leave for nothing is still here though. Is he? I didn’t know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 29 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Game, Set, and Match. Again, so does Alex. He doesn’t do it as much as we’d like and most complained about the former QB not throwing downfield enough either when he was here. We’ve thrown it down field a handful of times in each game, now, they aren’t all completed - some are dropped and some are overshot, undertheown or broken up but to say we haven’t thrown the ball downfield at all is a fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 hours ago, turtle28 said: I can’t disagree. Where I get frustrated is where people say that we don’t even try deep shots because it’s just NOT true. Maybe they don’t try enough deep shots, heck we all complained that both Gruden and McVay didn’t TRY enough deep shots when we had DJax for 3 years but it wasn’t like we never tried any. We tried, and sometimes Cousins or RG3 would hit them, and sometimes they’d just overshoot DJax like Alex has done a few times this year too on what should’ve been TDs. Saying we don’t try any intermediate to deep throws is a fallacy, and I hate it when I see posters write things that’s are untrue. At the same time, when they both tighten up, the playcalls and the execution tends to be short dump offs. If the Redskins are leading, it makes some sense (keep the ball moving and burn some clock), though there are times when just handing the ball of would be better. Both of them can get cute when simple is all that is called for. However, if they are behind, that's when it becomes problematic. Time is absolutely precious commodity when the team is losing. Throwing underneath to the middle of the field in that scenario is exactly what the defense asks for. As an example, if you go to https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091608/2018/REG2/colts@redskins (not a fan of the new layout at all), open up every Redskins drive in the second half, and search the page for "A.Smith pass," you get 29 entries. If you type "A.Smith pass short," you get 21 entries. Of the remaining eight entries, 2 are deep passes and 6 are incomplete passes (one is deep). The last deep attempt was at 2:03 in the 3rd quarter. 15 passes were attempted in the fourth quarter alone, none of which went further than 10 yards, even though the Redskins were down 12 points at that point and thus needed two scores. I would talk about the Saints game, but the play-by-play cuts off 10:29 remaining in the 4th quarter. Not sure what that's about. As another example, https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018101408/2018/REG6/panthers@redskins ... we won this game. First drive = incomplete short pass, 8 yard run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it happens, but why the underneath pass to Bibbs there instead of pounding it with Peterson?). Second drive (off of the fumbled punt) = deep pass to Davis, touchdown. Third drive = incomplete deep left to Reed, short middle to Reed, sneak by Smith, scramble by Smith (on 4th, converts), run by Bibbs, deep left to Davis, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it's on the 2), complete short pass (on the 2, TD). That's all in the first quarter! Unfortunately, there are only two deep passes the rest of the game. This allowed the Carolina defense to creep up and cover the short stuff. Results of drives in the second half when Gruden and Smith not to lose? Turnover on downs (started on WAS 31, 4th & 4, on Carolina's 38; understandable (kicking the field goal would be dicey and a miss puts them on their own 45)), field goal (started on the WAS 20, ended on CAR 38 due to a sack/fumble), field goal (started on the WAS 25, ended up on CAR 11 due to incomplete pass). They tightened up, and almost lost the game. Not because of their execution, but due to the mentality of playing not to lose. So, yes, Smith will take deep shots. But the almost all happen in early on in the game. When it's late, both he and Gruden are perfectly willing to just dink and dunk on the field. Problem is that is a tell that opponents know. They're waiting on the underneath routes. As such, we end up with games where we as fans are like "c'mon guys, don't give this away!" (like Miami did with Virginia (hiya @Jeezy Fanatic! )) and we get upset because we saw what they did earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 hours ago, turtle28 said: I thought you were just talking about this season and I’ll still point out that Alex was better than Bradford and continues to be better than Keenum despite Keenum having great WRs. As I said before, Smith was probably the best available QB from the ones who would have been available. However, the price that was paid to acquire him and sign him long term cannot be ignored when factoring in comparisons with the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, RSkinGM said: This is the sweetheart of a guy y'all as missing so badly . https://nypost.com/2018/10/16/how-sweet-it-will-be-for-jets-to-shut-up-classless-kirk-cousins/ Oh no! A player used another team's offer to force his desired team's offer up! Oh, the humanity! *clutches at pearls* 1 hour ago, RSkinGM said: Mercenary you mean . he played us and he played the Jets. Never would have signed with either . Had we offered him his market-value deal in 2015 or 2016 instead of trying to get cute, he very easily could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 17 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: He's also the only Pro Bowl QB in history to hit FA in his prime. Its unprecedented that we didn't get more for him Second time. Drew Brees went to the Pro Bowl in 2004 and hit the free agency market in 2006 at age 27. However, that was because the Chargers had used a 1st round pick on Rivers (who had sat for two years due to his own stupidity) and Brees tore his labrum. For someone to be healthy and for the team to not have a quarterback of the future waiting in the wings? That's unprecedented (and please don't claim that Alex Smith was waiting in the wings; he was the fall back plan once the Redskins realized they were over the barrel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: Oh I saw that. I wanted to keep Cousins. I was one of the few who didn’t have a problem with franchising Cousins this year and paying him a contract like he got from the Vikings, most fans didn’t want to give Cousins the contract he got. They wanted him, but only if he was going to get paid $20 to $25 mil a year. I think we need to get over the fact that Cousins gone because he’s not coming back. Its not that Cousins isnt coming back. Alex had a couple of his best seasons, top 10 in numerous categories. Comes here and shows nothing like it. Cousins was here, and goes away and is top 10 in a dozen stat list. Cousins isnt part of the team. And people can say hes not important. But I think its very much so because we have 2 qbs to judge what Jays doing with the offense. Production stats elsewhere, but not here for both. Its a mediocre coach producing a mediocre offense. And hes going to be mediocre enough to keep his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, RSkinGM said: Mercenary you mean . he played us and he played the Jets. Never would have signed with either . You say mercenary...I say good businessman. We are all mercenaries when it comes to what motivates us to choose one job over another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Woz said: At the same time, when they both tighten up, the playcalls and the execution tends to be short dump offs. If the Redskins are leading, it makes some sense (keep the ball moving and burn some clock), though there are times when just handing the ball of would be better. Both of them can get cute when simple is all that is called for. However, if they are behind, that's when it becomes problematic. Time is absolutely precious commodity when the team is losing. Throwing underneath to the middle of the field in that scenario is exactly what the defense asks for. As an example, if you go to https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091608/2018/REG2/colts@redskins (not a fan of the new layout at all), open up every Redskins drive in the second half, and search the page for "A.Smith pass," you get 29 entries. If you type "A.Smith pass short," you get 21 entries. Of the remaining eight entries, 2 are deep passes and 6 are incomplete passes (one is deep). The last deep attempt was at 2:03 in the 3rd quarter. 15 passes were attempted in the fourth quarter alone, none of which went further than 10 yards, even though the Redskins were down 12 points at that point and thus needed two scores. I would talk about the Saints game, but the play-by-play cuts off 10:29 remaining in the 4th quarter. Not sure what that's about. As another example, https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018101408/2018/REG6/panthers@redskins ... we won this game. First drive = incomplete short pass, 8 yard run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it happens, but why the underneath pass to Bibbs there instead of pounding it with Peterson?). Second drive (off of the fumbled punt) = deep pass to Davis, touchdown. Third drive = incomplete deep left to Reed, short middle to Reed, sneak by Smith, scramble by Smith (on 4th, converts), run by Bibbs, deep left to Davis, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it's on the 2), complete short pass (on the 2, TD). That's all in the first quarter! Unfortunately, there are only two deep passes the rest of the game. This allowed the Carolina defense to creep up and cover the short stuff. Results of drives in the second half when Gruden and Smith not to lose? Turnover on downs (started on WAS 31, 4th & 4, on Carolina's 38; understandable (kicking the field goal would be dicey and a miss puts them on their own 45)), field goal (started on the WAS 20, ended on CAR 38 due to a sack/fumble), field goal (started on the WAS 25, ended up on CAR 11 due to incomplete pass). They tightened up, and almost lost the game. Not because of their execution, but due to the mentality of playing not to lose. So, yes, Smith will take deep shots. But the almost all happen in early on in the game. When it's late, both he and Gruden are perfectly willing to just dink and dunk on the field. Problem is that is a tell that opponents know. They're waiting on the underneath routes. As such, we end up with games where we as fans are like "c'mon guys, don't give this away!" (like Miami did with Virginia (hiya @Jeezy Fanatic! )) and we get upset because we saw what they did earlier. This is what I'm talking about when I say go back through the plays. NFL considers "deep" to be the ball travels 15 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 44 minutes ago, Woz said: Oh no! A player used another team's offer to force his desired team's offer up! Oh, the humanity! *clutches at pearls* Yeah, I'll NEVER understand the position of some fans who think the player should act any differently than they would when switching jobs in their industry. They think that since they are fans of the team and the guy plays for their team, that he needs to be a fan first and not someone who is running his own business. And that is what players are doing. Each player is running his own business. And I can tell you, when I have two competing offers when selling something, I try to use them to drive up the price. THAT'S.JUST.GOOD.BUSINESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: You say mercenary...I say good businessman. We are all mercenaries when it comes to what motivates us to choose one job over another I enjoy purchasing a larger basket of goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said: Its not that Cousins isnt coming back. Alex had a couple of his best seasons, top 10 in numerous categories. Comes here and shows nothing like it. Cousins was here, and goes away and is top 10 in a dozen stat list. Cousins isnt part of the team. And people can say hes not important. But I think its very much so because we have 2 qbs to judge what Jays doing with the offense. Production stats elsewhere, but not here for both. Its a mediocre coach producing a mediocre offense. And hes going to be mediocre enough to keep his job. Yeah, again, Cousins isn’t coming back so what he’s doing now is irrelevant to the Redskins. Alex and the passing game are still getting on the same page. Yeah, they haven’t lit the world on fire, but he’s going to be here for the next 2.5 years. I for one, am hoping that he, Reed and the WRs get in sync over the next month and have a better second half of the year than they’ve had the first 5 games of the year. I’m more pleased that the team is 3-2 at this point in the season because I thought we’d be 2-3 right now and we’ve done that despite our passing game just being mediocre as we break in a new starting WR and a new starting QB. If you really want to talk about Cousins so much, go to the Vikings forum. The last thing I’ll say about it is that Cousins is throwing to two pro bowl caliber WRs - even better WRs than when he had Djax & Garçon here - they are a reason why he’s doing well also. You can’t ignore the difference in talent between Doctson/Richardson vs Diggs/Theilen. Also, I’ll add that Alex didn’t have Doctson vs the Saints and vs the Panthers we didn’t have Crowder or CT and he still threw two TDs and we won. Again, I’ll continue to be happy for the W. I’m ready to move on to Dallas and I’m hopeful the passing offense gets more in sync over the next month so they can have a good second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Woz said: At the same time, when they both tighten up, the playcalls and the execution tends to be short dump offs. If the Redskins are leading, it makes some sense (keep the ball moving and burn some clock), though there are times when just handing the ball of would be better. Both of them can get cute when simple is all that is called for. However, if they are behind, that's when it becomes problematic. Time is absolutely precious commodity when the team is losing. Throwing underneath to the middle of the field in that scenario is exactly what the defense asks for. As an example, if you go to https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091608/2018/REG2/colts@redskins (not a fan of the new layout at all), open up every Redskins drive in the second half, and search the page for "A.Smith pass," you get 29 entries. If you type "A.Smith pass short," you get 21 entries. Of the remaining eight entries, 2 are deep passes and 6 are incomplete passes (one is deep). The last deep attempt was at 2:03 in the 3rd quarter. 15 passes were attempted in the fourth quarter alone, none of which went further than 10 yards, even though the Redskins were down 12 points at that point and thus needed two scores. I would talk about the Saints game, but the play-by-play cuts off 10:29 remaining in the 4th quarter. Not sure what that's about. As another example, https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018101408/2018/REG6/panthers@redskins ... we won this game. First drive = incomplete short pass, 8 yard run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it happens, but why the underneath pass to Bibbs there instead of pounding it with Peterson?). Second drive (off of the fumbled punt) = deep pass to Davis, touchdown. Third drive = incomplete deep left to Reed, short middle to Reed, sneak by Smith, scramble by Smith (on 4th, converts), run by Bibbs, deep left to Davis, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, run by Peterson, incomplete short pass (it's on the 2), complete short pass (on the 2, TD). That's all in the first quarter! Unfortunately, there are only two deep passes the rest of the game. This allowed the Carolina defense to creep up and cover the short stuff. Results of drives in the second half when Gruden and Smith not to lose? Turnover on downs (started on WAS 31, 4th & 4, on Carolina's 38; understandable (kicking the field goal would be dicey and a miss puts them on their own 45)), field goal (started on the WAS 20, ended on CAR 38 due to a sack/fumble), field goal (started on the WAS 25, ended up on CAR 11 due to incomplete pass). They tightened up, and almost lost the game. Not because of their execution, but due to the mentality of playing not to lose. So, yes, Smith will take deep shots. But the almost all happen in early on in the game. When it's late, both he and Gruden are perfectly willing to just dink and dunk on the field. Problem is that is a tell that opponents know. They're waiting on the underneath routes. As such, we end up with games where we as fans are like "c'mon guys, don't give this away!" (like Miami did with Virginia (hiya @Jeezy Fanatic! )) and we get upset because we saw what they did earlier. I’d love to see an analysis of Cousins’ deep passes he tried every game from 2015-2017. It seems to me he generally had a handful a game that traveled over 15 yards or near 20 yards most games. So again, we’re literally complaining about Alex not throwing one more deep pass a half - at most - and maybe I’m wrong, but unless you’re analyzing the coverage and if it’s even possible to hit an open Wr 20 yards downfield the entire point seems irrelevant to me. I don’t want my QB throwing the ball 20 yards downfield too many times if there’s a safety in place to make a play on the ball and there’s also a corner in the area because it could get picked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 22-yard TD pass. Pass travels 25 yards in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 @turtle28 if you scan through that entire thread of Hoffman's, you'll see it cuts out around halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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