MistaBohmbastic Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just now, bruceb said: Think he made the comment before he was on board, so unless he knew he had the gig.... He may not have been working for the Browns, but he most definitely had a job as a "consultant." Surely, he knew he would be working for certain teams interested in QB's. Perhaps he was already communicating with Dorsey before being brought on board. It's certainly plausible. So, why not let his "thoughts" be made public going into it, so that outsiders can assume that's the guy he's gonna advocate for, no matter where he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Im thinking giants go Chubb. Why trade jpp? Talk of Webb. Eli may or may not have a couple years. So much invested on offense already. Chubb is the way to another super bowl chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, matt27j said: Im thinking giants go Chubb. Why trade jpp? Talk of Webb. Eli may or may not have a couple years. So much invested on offense already. Chubb is the way to another super bowl chance. That was my initial thought after the JPP trade, too. But if you buy the Webb talk, why not the Barkley hype? I mean, the dude was seen IN PUBLIC rocking Giants gear proudly. Hard to say what's smoke and what isn't. NYG is definitely the wildcard that will have the biggest impact on how this draft plays out. I love it, as soon as we make our pick (it ain't Allen), we still have to be just as invested in what happens next. The suspense isn't going anywhere. Ahhhh, exciting times, boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said: How do you know this? All Dorsey does is watch tape. He must have recognized the difficulty of throws that Darnold has made compared to Mayfield's throughout the season. Bias in evaluations... overvaluing other characteristics while undervaluing others... is central to scouting and all GMs and evaluators have to resist the dark temptations of those biases. The thing about scouting is that these people are ultimately paid to have an opinion and often overly depend on traditionalist opinions that are skewed toward past players they've had experience with (a la Baker Mayfield is like Brett Favre...) when in actuality Sam Darnold's off platform game more similarly resembles Favre. Watching the tape and having a good process doesn't mean that bias won't take over when it's time to make a gut decision.... there are ways however to make sure biases don't overly influence decisions like the Sashi Brown way that 1. Hedged bets by acquiring more picks to protect the franchise from big mistakes, and 2. Relying on the consensus of experts rather than going with one's own evaluation to lead. Therefore, if Sashi was in the captain's chair he'd rely on the consensus of the Coaches, scouts, other evaluators of other teams, league wide consensus, analytics, etc...and from that base of knowledge he make a decision. In this year, that process would've led us to Sam Darnold for sure.. Football traditionalists often go with their gut and we have tons of examples of that with even well respected GMs. Will Dorsey listen to consensus, or will he go based on his and McCloughan's and others' bias toward Mayfield's personality and football skills set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Bias in evaluations... overvaluing other characteristics while undervaluing others... is central to scouting and all GMs and evaluators have to resist the dark temptations of those biases. The thing about scouting is that these people are ultimately paid to have an opinion and often overly depend on traditionalist opinions that are skewed toward past players they've had experience with (a la Baker Mayfield is like Brett Favre...) when in actuality Sam Darnold's off platform game more similarly resembles Favre. Watching the tape and having a good process doesn't mean that bias won't take over when it's time to make a gut decision.... there are ways however to make sure biases don't overly influence decisions like the Sashi Brown way that 1. Hedged bets by acquiring more picks to protect the franchise from big mistakes, and 2. Relying on the consensus of experts rather than going with one's own evaluation to lead. Therefore, if Sashi was in the captain's chair he'd rely on the consensus of the Coaches, scouts, other evaluators of other teams, league wide consensus, analytics, etc...and from that base of knowledge he make a decision. Football traditionalists often go with their gut and we have tons of examples of that with even well respected GMs. Will Dorsey listen to consensus, or will he go based on his and McCloughan's and others' bias toward Mayfield's personality and football skills set? This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, MistaBohmbastic said: That was my initial thought after the JPP trade, too. But if you buy the Webb talk, why not the Barkley hype? I mean, the dude was seen IN PUBLIC rocking Giants gear proudly. Hard to say what's smoke and what isn't. NYG is definitely the wildcard that will have the biggest impact on how this draft plays out. I love it, as soon as we make our pick (it ain't Allen), we still have to be just as invested in what happens next. The suspense isn't going anywhere. Ahhhh, exciting times, boys. Im guessing ny doesnt go barkley. Would definitely be a super bowl offense but the defense is missing a key position. Take chubb still got an offense that can get you there if eli gets hot and a defense that belongs. Could easily trade down. Interesting times indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, bosko1616 said: I’m worried Josh Allen is the pick. It’ll be such a waste. I’m worried about if I want medium roast or dark roast in the morning ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, brownie man said: Yeah there no comparison with Allen and Mahomes totally different situations Yeah Mahomes was mad accurate. If anything he’s like Darnold, can throw accurately from any arm angle and foot placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: Bias in evaluations... overvaluing other characteristics while undervaluing others... is central to scouting and all GMs and evaluators have to resist the dark temptations of those biases. The thing about scouting is that these people are ultimately paid to have an opinion and often overly depend on traditionalist opinions that are skewed toward past players they've had experience with (a la Baker Mayfield is like Brett Favre...) when in actuality Sam Darnold's off platform game more similarly resembles Favre. Watching the tape and having a good process doesn't mean that bias won't take over when it's time to make a gut decision.... there are ways however to make sure biases don't overly influence decisions like the Sashi Brown way that 1. Hedged bets by acquiring more picks to protect the franchise from big mistakes, and 2. Relying on the consensus of experts rather than going with one's own evaluation to lead. Therefore, if Sashi was in the captain's chair he'd rely on the consensus of the Coaches, scouts, other evaluators of other teams, league wide consensus, analytics, etc...and from that base of knowledge he make a decision. In this year, that process would've led us to Sam Darnold for sure.. Football traditionalists often go with their gut and we have tons of examples of that with even well respected GMs. Will Dorsey listen to consensus, or will he go based on his and McCloughan's and others' bias toward Mayfield's personality and football skills set? Alright, I get that Dorsey keeps things close to the vest. It's a totally different year, different organization, but you look at last year's draft where KC took Mahomes, and even then, there was *some* speculation of that pick two weeks prior to the big day. Check out this article, I posted it a week or two ago but it's still entirely relevant. If you scroll down to the "Chiefscreen" segment, there's some pretty good quotes, but there's one specifically about KC's interest in Mahomes there: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/4/15/15312802/2017-chiefs-draft-visits Now, it's clear to me that Baker is still very much in this race, but the fact that Vegas has him as the least likely QB to be taken by CLE, AND that we have not heard his name surface as the legitimate #1 pick amongst the respectable minds in the media HAS to mean something, no? I do recall Mary Kay Cabot saying he's still in the picture and people blew it off, but that report never picked up steam. Perhaps I'm justifying Darnold as the certain pick, but this HAS to leave even you curious. How could it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 For those who pay for the OBR just stop now, the only scoop they can corral is ice cream. We’re not drafting Allen. I’ve not seen any convincing proof of this. The only piece of info that connects Dorsey to Allen is something he said a long time ago that he thought he was a good qb. A whisper doesn’t always equate to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Alright, I get that Dorsey keeps things close to the vest. It's a totally different year, different organization, but you look at last year's draft where KC took Mahomes, and even then, there was *some* speculation of that pick two weeks prior to the big day. Check out this article, I posted it a week or two ago but it's still entirely relevant. If you scroll down to the "Chiefscreen" segment, there's some pretty good quotes, but there's one specifically about KC's interest in Mahomes there: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/4/15/15312802/2017-chiefs-draft-visits Now, it's clear to me that Baker is still very much in this race, but the fact that Vegas has him as the least likely QB to be taken by CLE, AND that we have not heard his name surface as the legitimate #1 pick amongst the respectable minds in the media HAS to mean something, no? I do recall Mary Kay Cabot saying he's still in the picture and people blew it off, but that report never picked up steam. Perhaps I'm justifying Darnold as the certain pick, but this HAS to leave even you curious. How could it not? So, the interesting questions to ask start with 1. "When does hearing a name associated with a Team/GM's preference mean something versus when does it not?" Right now, we hear Josh Allen as the guy...does that mean something? The way I look at it is that every year teams at the top are associated with various names based on how good the narratives are for television viewership...Josh Allen going 1 is more believable than Baker Mayfield going 1 to the draftnik viewership audience...so that narrative gets the push because it has the "Browns are incompetently passing on the best QB for the big arm shiny QB", also has the "Favre had a big arm and low completion percentage, so does Allen" vibe, and the "Mahomes was a project with a big arm...Allen's a project with a big arm" thing so that gets the push... The next questions are, 1. How often do picks seemingly come out of nowhere?, and 2. Has that happened with John Dorsey ? The Joey Bosa to the Chargers, Blake Bortles to the Jags, Mitch Trubisky to the Bears, were all surprising picks where there was no smoke at all. The chargers were thought to be Jalen Ramsey or Deforest Buckner...no one had Bosa there or heard anything like Telesco was going there. In terms of Dorsey, no one thought he would go Eric Fisher over Luke Joeckel...absolutely no one...not Vegas...not anyone....No one thought the Packers were going to take a QB like Rodgers while Favre was still in his extended prime... and while people thought the Chiefs might look to upgrade at QB it was an extreme minority opinion to to think the Chiefs would really target Mahomes. So, ultimately what a person believes will happen is based on just that...what a person believes/want to happen... Dorsey is one of the most secretive GMs to ever do it in terms of final decision...so, the fact nothing has made the popular media yet regarding Mayfield doesn't mean anything to me just like it doesn't mean anything to me that Josh Allen is all over the headlines. But then again that's just me... I hope it's Darnold, but ultimately the only reason why Mayfield hasn't been linked to us is because no one believes that's a real believable possibility.... We shall see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I like Jordan Lasley too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I like Jordan Lasley too. Good player. Much better than given credit for. Apparently he has character concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Still double digit days of this speculation and silly season. Draft day can't get here soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Still double digit days of this speculation and silly season. Draft day can't get here soon enough. Bruh... It’s brutal right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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