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VanS

Lamar Jackson should get 1st overall pick consideration...

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1 hour ago, Iamcanadian said:

The only way Vick didn't tear defenses apart was because, he could not hit a wide open receiver if his life depended on it

If he could not hit a wide open receiver, he wouldn't be in the league.

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

If he could not hit a wide open receiver, he wouldn't be in the league.

Here's an example from the Packers vs Eagles playoff game. Vick puts the ball a little low and inside instead of high and outside

Game over. Season over

 

 

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5 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

In his prime, before he went to prison, no defense ever shut down Michael Vick, they just prayed his accuracy would remain far below average, because it was almost impossible to tackle him when he was escaping the pass rush and his receivers had basically, all day to get open. The only way Vick didn't tear defenses apart was because, he could not hit a wide open receiver if his life depended on it. 

I am not completely sure Jackson has that type of elite escapability, but if he does, he is a far more accurate passer than Vick ever dreamed of being!!!

To say, defending Vick was pretty simple stuff is utter rubbish IMO, for a guy who was terribly inaccurate, he still took teams to the playoffs many times.

People seem to forget that Jackson has a very solid pro arm, just behind Allen in strength and while he may miss a few targets, when he hits one, it tends to go a long distance and he is not that inaccurate, not by a longshot!!!

Tampa Bay and Carolina always played him well. They blitzed from his right side and sat a spy on the back side. He ran himself into several sacks. Tampa Bay in particular was always great at stopping him from getting outside of the pocket. So yeah, several defenses shut down Michael Vick. He would get loose against most teams, but let's not pretend like he was some mythical God that could not be contained before prison. I'm not saying he was bad by any stretch...that's insane. But I do think there was a very simple strategy to defending Vick and every team that I saw employ this strategy was able to give him fits. It forced him to be a pocket QB and he didn't have the accuracy or the WR talent to hurt teams operating between the tackles.

I have to imagine teams will do the same to Lamar Jackson--who is not quite the athlete that Vick was. Jackson might be faster in a straight line, but Vick had some unreal hip flexion and could elude in a phone booth better than just about anyone. I don't see the same kind of wiggle from L-Jax.

Nobody is questioning Jackson's arm talent. I've seen exactly 0 people question that. Everyone questions the offense he plays in and his accuracy. To say he isn't THAT inaccurate is false. He has good deep ball accuracy for the most part, but his intermediate and short accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.

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4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

If he could not hit a wide open receiver, he wouldn't be in the league.

 

You'd think so, but somehow Brock Osweiler was still in the NFL after 2016.  Even worse, he was probably the best QB two different teams had this past season. 

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50 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Vick puts the ball a little low and inside instead of high and outside

So is this what we are doing? Nitpicking individual throws? we can do the same thing for Brady, come on man....

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14 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

So is this what we are doing? Nitpicking individual throws? we can do the same thing for Brady, come on man....

Your a idiot. Did you not see that play? He threw an interception. Game over. Season over.

If you want a quarterback that's ever had a bad throw, I don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of QB's out there who have never thrown a bad pass.

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I agree that Lamar should be in the discussion for number 1 overall. I always get a kick out of seeing people say he should switch positions, or won't succeed in the NFL due to his frame...Despite several other QB's having success with nearly identical builds. I do think that the knocks on Lamar as a passer have been overblown a bit. He has a bad OL that is routinely outmatched giving him hardly time to properly set his feet and make throws in the pocket on a pretty regular basis. Obviously there is work to be done as a passer, but he has all sorts of tools to work with as well. As others have mentioned on here, there are adjusted statistics (Accounting for drops and such) that show he is right there with Darnold, and Rosen. He has such rare natural ability, and has improved each year as a passer. I think he goes much earlier than many have him going once the draft is here. 

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1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

So is this what we are doing? Nitpicking individual throws? we can do the same thing for Brady, come on man....

Here's a link to Vick's career completion % ( 56%) These numbers suggest some accuracy concerns, although its tougher for a QB who was often throwing on the move.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm 

I was merely offering one video example of Vick's accuracy challenges

Vick was an 8 year NFL veteran and he knows the end-of-game situation. Its first down in scoring position with under a minute left. He has single coverage outside by a CB who is 5 inches shorter than his WR, Riley Cooper. He has plenty of time and no pass rush in his face

If there was ever a time to miss outside, this was most certainly it. And he couldn't do it.  So either he didn't fully comprehend the game situation (unlikely) or he was unable to deliver a more accurate pass. All QBs miss, that's not the issue here. Its that given the particulars, you'd miss long or miss wide 100 times out of 100 before you'd miss short and inside. That's the accuracy issue. And his career numbers suggest this throw wasn't an anomaly, so I think the example fits

Some chalk it up to business as usual, I see it differently. Certainly not a big deal either way

....Back to Lamar Jackson

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I really enjoyed going through this thread to see varied opinions on Lamar Jackson. 

I won't be surprised if the Bills can't get into the top 10 that they stay pat at 21 and 22 and take Jackson with one of those picks. Playing in an offense run by Daboll could help ease his transition to the game. Having Kelvin Benjamin who can have a big catch radius would not hurt either IMO.

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On 2/21/2018 at 3:10 PM, sammymvpknight said:

The league struggled with RG3 year one. I think that VanS is spot on. I think that Jackson has a very good chance of being the best rookie QB. But I also know that the league eventually catches up with running QBs  or they get hurt. 

Haven’t seen to catch up to Wilson or Newton.

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On 2/26/2018 at 5:57 PM, Trentwannabe said:

I really enjoyed going through this thread to see varied opinions on Lamar Jackson. 

I won't be surprised if the Bills can't get into the top 10 that they stay pat at 21 and 22 and take Jackson with one of those picks. Playing in an offense run by Daboll could help ease his transition to the game. Having Kelvin Benjamin who can have a big catch radius would not hurt either IMO.

If they hate Tyrod Taylor, I can only imagine what they think of Lamar Jackson.

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1 minute ago, Shylo3716 said:

If they hate Tyrod Taylor, I can only imagine what they think of Lamar Jackson.

Lamar Jackson is going to be much better than Tyrod Taylor. They aren't similar at all other than the fact that they're both black and use their feet.

Jackson has a much stronger arm, a much higher willingness to throw the ball down the field, and has elite speed...for any position in the NFL.

Tyrod Taylor has a decent arm, but he never throws down the field. He's fast for a QB, but Lamar Jackson runs circles around him in terms of speed.

 

And we all know what Tyrod Taylor is. Lamar Jackson is an unscratched lottery ticket. Tyrod Taylor is that $1 winner that isn't worth the trip to the store to cash it in.

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1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

Lamar Jackson is going to be much better than Tyrod Taylor. They aren't similar at all other than the fact that they're both black and use their feet.

Jackson has a much stronger arm, a much higher willingness to throw the ball down the field, and has elite speed...for any position in the NFL.

Tyrod Taylor has a decent arm, but he never throws down the field. He's fast for a QB, but Lamar Jackson runs circles around him in terms of speed.

 

And we all know what Tyrod Taylor is. Lamar Jackson is an unscratched lottery ticket. Tyrod Taylor is that $1 winner that isn't worth the trip to the store to cash it in.

Word was out that they want a pocket-passer, which is why I cannot see them taking Jackson. I’m not quite sure if they are one of many that views him as a WR.

Edited by Shylo3716

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His throwing can't really be judged without defenders and in pajamas at the combine or pro day.  However, if he beats Vicks 4.25 40 he might sky rocket.  He looks a slight tick slower than Vick to me but who knows?  I like the guy.  As a Dolphins fan, I'm interested.

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