New Mock with Trades.

[BleedTheClock]

The "no rings" argument is the worst argument in all of sports.

[brownie man]

6 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

You need elite safeties in the NFL nowadays. You can't win with stiffs out there. Most elite defenses have at least 1 stud safety. The only really dominant defense without an elite safety that I can think of in the last 15 years would be the Urlacher-era Bears and this past year's Jaguars.

But that’s what Peppers is supposed to eventually develop into

do you need him and a similar player in Minkah

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, brownie man said:

But that’s what Peppers is supposed to eventually develop into

do you need him and a similar player in Minkah

Huh? I'm confused so here's my overall thoughts:

Peppers can play SS or NCB. He'd be best playing NCB where he could come on blitzes, cover slot receivers, and rob underneath zones. I'd want him playing NCB.

Kindred is a perfectly fine SS, so I don't think we send him to the bench because we want to slam Peppers into a role. Kindred is sadly better than Peppers right now to be honest. We need to use Jabrill in non-traditional ways if we want him to be a superstar chaos creator for us.

Minkah FItzpatrick is basically perfect for the exact role that Peppers is. I don't want Fitzpatrick. He's a slightly better option to play FS, but it's still not ideal for him. I'm not spending a top 5 pick on a guy that's made all of his money playing SS and then moving him to FS. It'd be a waste of his talents.

[brownie man]

9 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Huh? I'm confused so here's my overall thoughts:

Peppers can play SS or NCB. He'd be best playing NCB where he could come on blitzes, cover slot receivers, and rob underneath zones. I'd want him playing NCB.

Kindred is a perfectly fine SS, so I don't think we send him to the bench because we want to slam Peppers into a role. Kindred is sadly better than Peppers right now to be honest. We need to use Jabrill in non-traditional ways if we want him to be a superstar chaos creator for us.

Minkah FItzpatrick is basically perfect for the exact role that Peppers is. I don't want Fitzpatrick. He's a slightly better option to play FS, but it's still not ideal for him. I'm not spending a top 5 pick on a guy that's made all of his money playing SS and then moving him to FS. It'd be a waste of his talents.

Ok exactly we are on the same page 

so it’s really either Barkley or Chubb

[BleedTheClock]

5 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Ok exactly we are on the same page 

so it’s really either Barkley or Chubb

I'd rather have Fitzpatrick than Chubb. Chubb doesn't excite me at all. I have Marcus Davenport rated higher. Chubb isn't explosive enough to ever become a terror off the edge. There's a very low chance he's a bust, but I want a dynamic pass rusher if I'm taking one in the top 5 and he's not it.

 

So if Saquon Barkley is gone (I doubt he will be), I'd trade down. If we can't trade down (there will be plenty of suitors), I would take Derwin James and play him at FS. He's actually played FS at a high level and has much more vertical and lateral speed. He could play the deep middle with ease and has done it before. Plus he's a monster in the run game. I trust Fitzpatrick to make any play that comes to him, but I trust Derwin James to get to the play unequivocally more than Fitz will. James has better physical traits, more upside, and has more of the skill set we need on this defense.

Hell, I'd even take Denzel Ward over Minkah Fitzpatrick or Bradley Chubb to be honest. I have Ward ranked higher than both of those guys on my big board and he fills a need (although we play a ton of off-zone, not press man).

[Fatgerman]

2 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.....stating that Eric Turner and Sean Taylor or unrealized Potential, makes me feel like your confusing unrealized PRODUCTION, because their careers were cut short by things that happen to all humans regardless of Job and economic status. Random acts of violence and cancer, can striker anyone of us on this board TODAY, just like it did them....with unrealized POTENTIAL like a Justin Blackmon or Jamarcus Russell, who pissed away their talent for drugs or drinking......to me that's like saying that Jerome Brown was an OK DT because he died in a car Wreck, or that Ernie Davis was not worth the top pick in the draft, because he later came down with Leukemia...or that you wouldnt have draft Bo Jackson in the top 10, because later he had a freak hip injury? 

With Darren Sharper, I focused on his years as a dominant Ball hawking FS, for multiple teams,  Not his poor choices post playing career.....and yes he does have a ring also...but its funny how you selectively say he was not responsible for it, when your naming safeties who played on Defenses with MULTIPLE HOF's playing along side them on the offense and defense. Another thing is look at is Guess who Ronnie Lott (one of your listed safties) is tied with on the all time INT list

Also with Ed Reed....without a doubt one of my favorite players of all time....teammate of Sean Taylor at the U of Miami (there is an old article I probably wont be able to find, but they asked Ed Reed one time, who was better, him or Sean T.....Reed was emphatic about how much better Sean Taylor was than he was)..but the Ravens team that is considered the best (or 2nd best IMO to the '85 bears) Defense of all time, didnt even include Ed Reed? (reed was drafted in 2000)

And if were using your logic, then a player has to have a SB ring, to justify being selected in the top 5-Top 10, then if that was the case then your saying that Trent Dilfer, Joe Flaco and Nick Foles were all worth top 5/10 picks, while Dan Marino, Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly would NOT be worth top 10 picks......remember football is a team game...and there are 22 starters needed to win a SB. One man winning one or not has nothing to do with their individual talent level....Individual talent level/potential IMO is what makes a person worth or not worth a top 10 pick....

IJS

Jeez, who peed in your cheerios? Were you a highschool safety or something? Im not gonna lie, your tenor chapped my rear a bit, but I dont wanna be one of those guys who gets petty and nasty on a stupid internet forum about SPORTS of all things. I will refrain from juvenile retorts as best I can. 

Yes, Sharper was pretty much a JAG by that point in his career, so I stand by my statement.

Unrealized Potential or Production? Come on! Youre splitting hairs. I try not to be trivial about semantics, and thats exactly what that was. I dont drive a car, I operate an automobile

Thing of it is, we will never know how long either Turner or Jones would have maintained their level of play. Guys go in and out of the league all the time, starting out as studs and by year 5 or 6 their careers fizzle out.  And Ernie Davis could have busted in the NFL, never played so we will never know. A player who MIGHT have been great doesnt get a bust in the HOF for a reason.

Otherwise, we better get a bust ready for Lecharles Bentley. He was dam good until his knee went, but maybe you didnt know, anyone of us on this board could tear his patella tendon and get staph TODAY 

We can get shot or cancer? The hell you say.... Come on. You act like I denegrated these guys. Get over it. Lighten up. 

You clearly missed my point. Top ten picks should be cornerstone positions, positions that are vital to Championships. Safety is not one of those positions. Safeties, Linebackers, Interior O-Line, TEs, and RBs, although important, are positions to be drafted after the top ten. QB, WR, LT, DE, DT, and CB are top ten positions.

Me pointing out those safeties not having rings was me pointing out that the safety position is rarily the driving force of championship teams. Gotta have good safety play, but elite safety play is not required. And BTW, I didnt make up this philosophy, its one thats been in the league for years.

Now, I hope we can chill, be cool, and remember that we are brothers under the Browns banner. Orange and Brown is thicker than water.

[mtmmike]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:10 PM, bosko1616 said:

Okay reason why ? 

two reasons my hands are exceptionally large so i can stabilize footballs in bad weather

2 i am only 6 feet tall and i had triuble seeing over lineman in high school I could not imagine trying to see over todays lineman

3 mayfield does not have exceptional arm strentgh to off set these short comings

[Fatgerman]

4 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

two reasons my hands are exceptionally large so i can stabilize footballs in bad weather

2 i am only 6 feet tall and i had triuble seeing over lineman in high school I could not imagine trying to see over todays lineman

3 mayfield does not have exceptional arm strentgh to off set these short comings

Whats your 3 cone?

[FGK]

48 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

two reasons my hands are exceptionally large so i can stabilize footballs in bad weather

2 i am only 6 feet tall and i had triuble seeing over lineman in high school I could not imagine trying to see over todays lineman

3 mayfield does not have exceptional arm strentgh to off set these short comings

.......... This is why I want to beat my head against a wall whenever I come in here to talk QBs.

[bruceb]

3 hours ago, brownie man said:

Ok exactly we are on the same page 

so it’s really either Barkley or Chubb

Or trade down for greater value.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, mtmmike said:

two reasons my hands are exceptionally large so i can stabilize footballs in bad weather

2 i am only 6 feet tall and i had triuble seeing over lineman in high school I could not imagine trying to see over todays lineman

You look around them, like a slew of 6’2” qb’s do.  I’m still waiting for someone to provide an example of a QB who failed because of height...

2 hours ago, mtmmike said:

3 mayfield does not have exceptional arm strentgh to off set these short comings

Exceptional, a la JaMarcus Russell? No, no he doesn’t.  More than enough arm to be successful?  Oh yes, and then some. If he fails, it won’t be because of his arm strength.

[mtmmike]

4 hours ago, Fatgerman said:

Whats your 3 cone?

about 30 years

[Fatgerman]

5 hours ago, mtmmike said:

about 30 years

Sorry, pal. Six months is the cutoff. Try shuffle board.  

[mtmmike]

On 2/24/2018 at 1:18 AM, Fatgerman said:

Sorry, pal. Six months is the cutoff. Try shuffle board.  

Though I have a excellent sled pull time while running down hill thats my best skill

[Fatgerman]

2 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Though I have a excellent sled pull time while running down hill thats my best skill

Yeah, I was aiming for the winter olympics myself, ya know, go for the gold, but then I found out eating an entire Eskimo family isnt considered a sport. Im gonna see about eating Pacific Islanders for the next summer olympics. Fingers crossed.