Mike Pettine Defense

[Gopackgonerd]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That first play was as clear of a combo off of a DE as you will ever see. That is not on Martinez. That is Lowry getting doubled easy.

Made the tackle in the second play.

Held his hand in the third play.

We have no way of knowing if hitting the crosser was part of his responsibilities and that certainly wasn't QB spy depth on his drop which makes that claim questionable as well.

6th play is for sure a whiff.

7th play he's lined up outside the TE on the left and the ball carrier went between the Center and Right guard??

8th play Kenny Clark jumped outside giving the OL a free path to him. Lowry got pulled inside. Fackrell got stuck on a TE. Jesus Christ is Fackrell looking trash this year.

9th play Kenny Clark guessed wrong on his first step leaving three ******* gaps open.

10th play: he was never in the play. What the **** are people mad at him here for?

11th play. He was in his gap. Adams got excited and blew his gap responsibility going for the stop. That's not Martinez.

12th play, he's left side B gap and the ball carrier goes right side C Gap. What is the expectation on this play?

13th play, Watch Lowry here and tell me that's anything more than a guy getting combo'd? 

+++++

I understand everybody has the right to video and can draw their own conclusions, but some of this is straight ******* wrong and shows an ignorance by the guy posting these clips.

DLine, especially Lowry, let the group down on Sunday. Adams needs to get his emotions under control because that's a helluva lot more fixable than Lowry getting endlessly doubled up to the linebackers.

Most of these plays  aren't even affecting the game from Martinez's end anyways... That one where he labeled it #noimpact It was a freaking 1 yard gain and the run didn't even go to his side. I think these are pretty nit picky. We could have a lot worse out there at ILB.

[Cheech]

17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I understand everybody has the right to video and can draw their own conclusions, but some of this is straight ******* wrong and shows an ignorance by the guy posting these clips.

DLine, especially Lowry, let the group down on Sunday. Adams needs to get his emotions under control because that's a helluva lot more fixable than Lowry getting endlessly doubled up to the linebackers.

I didn't take that series of plays as blaming 50 for every single play.  What I took away is that he's struggling to be an effective linebacker when he's not clean.  And in some cases his initial hesitation allows blockers to get to him.  

Should those two observations be contested?  

We saw what havoc 52 created when he played some inside.  That move turned the defense around.  I'd argue that if he played inside more, Matthews might see more sacks/impact plays than playing on the edge.

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Cheech said:

I didn't take that series of plays as blaming 50 for every single play.  What I took away is that he's struggling to be an effective linebacker when he's not clean.  And in some cases his initial hesitation allows blockers to get to him.  

Should those two observations be contested?  

We saw what havoc 52 created when he played some inside.  That move turned the defense around.  I'd argue that if he played inside more, Matthews might see more sacks/impact plays than playing on the edge.

But Matthews inside means more 51 on the field.  I wonder if playing Fackrell inside some may make him a little better.  Maybe we can get a little Brad Jones magic out of him?

[Cheech]

1 minute ago, ThatJerkDave said:

But Matthews inside means more 51 on the field.  I wonder if playing Fackrell inside some may make him a little better.  Maybe we can get a little Brad Jones magic out of him?

Yeah, the point I made earlier is that I think we need 2 more EDGE players on the rosters than we have right now.  51 isn't the answer.  

I wish 51 could give us something at SAM, but he's been blocked by TE's just as well as he's been blocked by tackles.  

[ThatJerkDave]

1 minute ago, Cheech said:

Yeah, the point I made earlier is that I think we need 2 more EDGE players on the rosters than we have right now.  51 isn't the answer.  

I wish 51 could give us something at SAM, but he's been blocked by TE's just as well as he's been blocked by tackles.  

I won't argue a bit of that.  Just a hope of an idea to maybe get some value out of Kyle.

 

At this point, I don't think there is a lot that can be done.  According to sprotrac, we have the 4th lowest amount of cap space available (if I am reading this right), with just under 3 million dollars.  So if our savior is on the street, he is probably an unknown commodity like 2010 Erik Walden.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

[Gopackgonerd]

18 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I won't argue a bit of that.  Just a hope of an idea to maybe get some value out of Kyle.

 

At this point, I don't think there is a lot that can be done.  According to sprotrac, we have the 4th lowest amount of cap space available (if I am reading this right), with just under 3 million dollars.  So if our savior is on the street, he is probably an unknown commodity like 2010 Erik Walden.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

That or Kendall Donnerson on the PS.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Cheech said:

I didn't take that series of plays as blaming 50 for every single play.  What I took away is that he's struggling to be an effective linebacker when he's not clean.  And in some cases his initial hesitation allows blockers to get to him.  

Should those two observations be contested?  

We saw what havoc 52 created when he played some inside.  That move turned the defense around.  I'd argue that if he played inside more, Matthews might see more sacks/impact plays than playing on the edge.

Here's a list of every single ILB who doesn't struggle when not kept clean:

 

 

 

End of list

What's being described as initial hesitation is being gap sound. You don't want your guy shooting every gap he sees. You want him locking down his gap.

You look at the play where Adams jumps inside, Martinez is in that gap. He's doing everything right, then Adams has his eyes get big and tries to make a superstar play rather than just being gap sound. 

+++ 

Matthews at ILB is suffering from some historical revisionism. Matthews wasn't getting sacks as a blitzer on 1st and 10. He was getting sacks out of the pressure packages and his role in the pressure packages didn't change 

What did change is we started to go up against some less talented offenses. Our secondary got a little healthier. And yes, we for a little better at getting to pressure package situations with the upgrade at ILB, but it's not like Clay was a great ILB. He was a very good pressure package blitzer, but his role there really didn't change.

Either way this team has LB problems. The injury to Ryan was bad, but survivable. The injury to Burks wouldn't have been the end of the world except that Ryan was also out. Both Toomer and Morrison are JAGs. 

This team also hasn't been able to be as multiple as Pettine teams in the past. Are you taking Wilkerson off the field for Morrison or Whitehead? **** no.

[MacReady]

Look at Ray Lewis before/after Ngata.  Also look at his comments directly before the Ravens drafted Ngata. 

[Cheech]

I watched Josey Jewell navigate garbage worse than that for the last few years at Iowa.  Instincts and first step are critical at the ILB position.  

Matthews found a nice balance between shooting gaps and taking on a pulling guard.  He also scraped better than any ILB we've had in a long time.  

If you don't  want to see 52 inside due to lack of EDGE depth, I understand that.  But are you arguing that 52 couldn't do any better vs. heavy sets/run downs?

[MacReady]

Just now, Cheech said:

I watched Josey Jewell navigate garbage worse than that for the last few years at Iowa.  Instincts and first step are critical at the ILB position. 

Tell me more about how the highest-rated rookie linebacker performed well in COLLEGE football without being kept clean.  Martinez is fine.  He's one of the highest rated linebackers in the NFL this year.  It's been said before, but literally every single player in the NFL has videos of their play this season that could make them look like they're crap.  Literally every single one. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Cheech said:

I watched Josey Jewell navigate garbage worse than that for the last few years at Iowa.  Instincts and first step are critical at the ILB position.  

Matthews found a nice balance between shooting gaps and taking on a pulling guard.  He also scraped better than any ILB we've had in a long time.  

If you don't  want to see 52 inside due to lack of EDGE depth, I understand that.  But are you arguing that 52 couldn't do any better vs. heavy sets/run downs?

College is an entirely different ballgame in the way that ILBs can affect the game, especially in the big ten where they play a simplified football game. Guys can outrun college blockers. 

In the NFL, that doesn't happen. You need stout bodies to keep ILBs clean. NFL O lineman are too good with their angles and hands. 

Instincts and first steps matter for sure, but DL play matters a whole hell of a lot more.

Matthews never showed great instincts at ILB. He was a solid body in there but acting like he was special outside of the pressure game at all is just wrong.

If Lowry is going to get combo'd clean to the backers and Adams is going to jump the wrong gaps, there's nothing a prime Junior Seau is going to do about it, even in heavy sets.

ILB is the least impactful position on defense.

[Cheech]

16 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

ILB is the least impactful position on defense

So what caused the defensive turnaround a few years ago?  

 

35 minutes ago, Cheech said:

If you don't  want to see 52 inside due to lack of EDGE depth, I understand that.  But are you arguing that 52 couldn't do any better vs. heavy sets/run downs?

 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Cheech said:

So what caused the defensive turnaround a few years ago?  

 

 

 

Read previous posts. It's been outlined.

If we still had Julius Peppers it would make sense to try Matthews inside, but we don't. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Cheech said:

So what caused the defensive turnaround a few years ago? 

Our run defense struggled in 2014.  Our pass rush was fine.  Our run defense is fine this year.  Our pass rush isn't. 

Can you not put the pieces together?  Sorry to sound like a ****, but it's very obvious.  Weakening a weakness to strengthen a strength doesn't make sense. 

[Cheech]

4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Read previous posts. It's been outlined.

Missed that part.  My bad.

When is the last time Matthews made the Pro Bowl?  He made multiple plays behind the LOS.