eyecatcher Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Why do Packer fans do this? I get that we played a poor team and that helps the stat. But the rest of the NFL plays poor teams as well. So why do we have to discount our stats when compared to the rest of the NFL, when the there is no discount on the rest as well? That is a question I have been wanting to ask for a bit now. When we win we got lucky, when we lose we suck. When we dominate the other team played bad. When Fackrell gets 3 sacks it was because the OL tripped the QB. OK well the last one is fact but you get the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Why do Packer fans do this? I get that we played a poor team and that helps the stat. But the rest of the NFL plays poor teams as well. So why do we have to discount our stats when compared to the rest of the NFL, when the there is no discount on the rest as well? because it's week 4 and 1 week seems like a big part of the season percentage wise but really it's just 1 game. I'm looking to evaluate the Packers Defense against good offenses because that has been their chronic issue for years now. We saw some things vs the Vikings, then an implosion. Vs Washington was the 2nd best offense we faced, and it was not very pretty either. Which other team's defense would you like my opinion on? Vikings are trash, Bears are among the best in the NFL, and the Lions are average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 The facts pretty clearly state we were an elite defense for 8 of the 12 Q's we played on D before the game, the other 4 Q's we've allowed over 75% of the seasons points in. Pettine showed them film in comparison from the elite quarters and the disastrous quarters and challenged them to play a complete game and they did. The fact that we're forcing incompletions on 3rd down and the best blitzing team in the league is a fantastic turn around for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: because it's week 4 and 1 week seems like a big part of the season percentage wise but really it's just 1 game. I'm looking to evaluate the Packers Defense against good offenses because that has been their chronic issue for years now. We saw some things vs the Vikings, then an implosion. Vs Washington was the 2nd best offense we faced, and it was not very pretty either. Which other team's defense would you like my opinion on? Vikings are trash, Bears are among the best in the NFL, and the Lions are average. I still think when comparing stats, if you want to take the Packers vs good offenses, then you need to compare them to the NFL vs good offenses, not the NFL overall. Take the Bears for instance- "one of the best in the NFL" I think you said. Against the Packers they were pretty good in the first half, though capitalized significantly on the back up, but then got shredded by an injured Aaron Rodgers. And then they have played 3, count them- 3 lousy offenses. So you see, you aren't evaluating them the same way you evaluate our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: I still think when comparing stats, if you want to take the Packers vs good offenses, then you need to compare them to the NFL vs good offenses, not the NFL overall. Take the Bears for instance- "one of the best in the NFL" I think you said. Against the Packers they were pretty good in the first half, though capitalized significantly on the back up, but then got shredded by an injured Aaron Rodgers. And then they have played 3, count them- 3 lousy offenses. So you see, you aren't evaluating them the same way you evaluate our team. The Bears have an extremely average secondary if you can block them up front (like we did in the 2nd half) you can shred them apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, eyecatcher said: That is a question I have been wanting to ask for a bit now. When we win we got lucky, when we lose we suck. When we dominate the other team played bad. When Fackrell gets 3 sacks it was because the OL tripped the QB. OK well the last one is fact but you get the picture. I never said we got lucky. Go check my posts in the bills thread. I was 100% certain we would blow the Bills out, we did, and it was because we're a much better team than the Bills. Pretty sure about that based on the first 3 games, and that hasn't changed since the Buffalo game. I said that right after we lost to Washington, so did I think we sucked? Riding high is fun sometimes I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecatcher Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, skibrett15 said: I never said we got lucky. Go check my posts in the bills thread. I was 100% certain we would blow the Bills out, we did, and it was because we're a much better team than the Bills. Pretty sure about that based on the first 3 games, and that hasn't changed since the Buffalo game. I said that right after we lost to Washington, so did I think we sucked? Riding high is fun sometimes I guess. I never said skibrett15 said we got lucky. It is just my general observation of how the discussions go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: I still think when comparing stats, if you want to take the Packers vs good offenses, then you need to compare them to the NFL vs good offenses, not the NFL overall. Take the Bears for instance- "one of the best in the NFL" I think you said. Against the Packers they were pretty good in the first half, though capitalized significantly on the back up, but then got shredded by an injured Aaron Rodgers. And then they have played 3, count them- 3 lousy offenses. So you see, you aren't evaluating them the same way you evaluate our team. This this this. The non-dimensional variable lover in me loves this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: I still think when comparing stats, if you want to take the Packers vs good offenses, then you need to compare them to the NFL vs good offenses, not the NFL overall. Take the Bears for instance- "one of the best in the NFL" I think you said. Against the Packers they were pretty good in the first half, though capitalized significantly on the back up, but then got shredded by an injured Aaron Rodgers. And then they have played 3, count them- 3 lousy offenses. So you see, you aren't evaluating them the same way you evaluate our team. 2, count em, 2 lousy offenses and 1, count em, 1 of the best offenses in the NFL. Y'all want to make it out like I think this is a lost season and the team sucks when all I'm saying is you're getting ahead of things and equating improvement with overall quality. It's obvious the Packers are improved on D. Does that mean they are improved from awful to below average or awful to good? TBD from where I'm sitting. Most of the recent posts on this topic read like you guys are saying the defense is amazing except when they give up points, yet you're nit picking on how I'm reading stats. I don't think the transitive property really works in the NFL i.e. "they beat x, and x beat y, so they are better than y" because certain teams match up differently. As it stands the Vikings, Lions, Rams, and Falcons are the playstyles and offensive matchups remaining on the schedule where we have historically struggled. This team has always showed up to play D against teams like Buffalo - see Chicago or Seattle from early last year. NYG, Seattle or Chicago 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: 2, count em, 2 lousy offenses and 1, count em, 1 of the best offenses in the NFL. Y'all want to make it out like I think this is a lost season and the team sucks when all I'm saying is you're getting ahead of things and equating improvement with overall quality. It's obvious the Packers are improved on D. Does that mean they are improved from awful to below average or awful to good? TBD from where I'm sitting. Most of the recent posts on this topic read like you guys are saying the defense is amazing except when they give up points, yet you're nit picking on how I'm reading stats. I don't think the transitive property really works in the NFL i.e. "they beat x, and x beat y, so they are better than y" because certain teams match up differently. As it stands the Vikings, Lions, Rams, and Falcons are the playstyles and offensive matchups remaining on the schedule where we have historically struggled. This team has always showed up to play D against teams like Buffalo - see Chicago or Seattle from early last year. NYG, Seattle or Chicago 2016. TB? One of the best? Pshhh, they only scored 10 against the one good defense they faced....oh wait. ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Y'all want to make it out like I think this is a lost season and the team sucks when all I'm saying is you're getting ahead of things and equating improvement with overall quality. It's obvious the Packers are improved on D. Does that mean they are improved from awful to below average or awful to good? TBD from where I'm sitting. If that is the point you are trying to make, then I agree with that. I just disagreed with the way the argument was being made- it doesn't really matter what has plagued the defense in recent years because of all the changes on the defense- a totally remade secondary, a new coordinator playing a markedly different scheme, and then discounting good performances when they occur. I agree, that there are still holes in the defense that won't be filled until next year, and the overall outcome of the year won't be known for a while, but there really isn't a good reason to throw cold water on the improvement that is obvious. All you have to do is watch the game and the improvement in the pass coverage is obvious. Sure, the edge rushers are not that great, but they are what they have been for a while, but we do see more creativity on the rush as a result of the improved coverage. I get the caution about the ceiling for this year, but sometimes people just get some enjoyment from, and are encouraged by the trend being positive for the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: This this this. The non-dimensional variable lover in me loves this I gotta admit, while I have a pretty solid background in math/science, you lost me on the non-dimensional variable comment. Its not like I developed the NFL equivalent of the Reynolds number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 39 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: I gotta admit, while I have a pretty solid background in math/science, you lost me on the non-dimensional variable comment. Its not like I developed the NFL equivalent of the Reynolds number. Let P_g = performance vs good team, P_b = performance against a good team. Then P_g for GB divided by P_g for Detroit is non-dimensional (and therefore legit to compare). Where's P_g for GB divided by P_b for Detroit has some arbitrary units and not worthy of comparison ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Why do Packer fans do this? I get that we played a poor team and that helps the stat. But the rest of the NFL plays poor teams as well. So why do we have to discount our stats when compared to the rest of the NFL, when the there is no discount on the rest as well? Burnt emotions from past years of thinking too highly of our team? That's my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: I still think when comparing stats, if you want to take the Packers vs good offenses, then you need to compare them to the NFL vs good offenses, not the NFL overall. Take the Bears for instance- "one of the best in the NFL" I think you said. Against the Packers they were pretty good in the first half, though capitalized significantly on the back up, but then got shredded by an injured Aaron Rodgers. And then they have played 3, count them- 3 lousy offenses. So you see, you aren't evaluating them the same way you evaluate our team. "They got a lot better after we played them, we were lucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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