CB Tramon Williams returning to GB - 2yr deal

[AlexGreen#20]

37 minutes ago, SSG said:

 

While this the Atlanta TD highlight is awesome... lets not forget his last play as a Packer.  He was flat out humiliated by Kearse.  

 

 

That's not "flat out humiliated". That's a terrible defensive call and a beautiful throw. Cover-0 in that situation is brain dead. 

[Greg C.]

It's funny how memory works. I remember that win over at Atlanta as a total blowout, which it was in the second half, but with 10 seconds left in the half the Packers led 21-14, and the Falcons had the ball. 

[packfanfb]

3 hours ago, SSG said:

 

While this the Atlanta TD highlight is awesome... lets not forget his last play as a Packer.  He was flat out humiliated by Kearse.  

 

 

The TD Williams gave up to Kearse was an absolute dime throw, despite good coverage by Williams. A foot farther, it's overthrown, a foot shorter, Williams, at worst gets a PD,, at best an INT. While there was a myriad of poor plays in the last 4 minutes of that game that cost us a trip to the SB, that was not one of them. 

[SSG]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That's not "flat out humiliated". That's a terrible defensive call and a beautiful throw. Cover-0 in that situation is brain dead. 

I'd imagine if Capers knew that Williams was going to let him guy run by him completely uncontested he'd have called a different defense.  A great throw and a bad call doesn't change the fact that it was terrible coverage.  Williams was on an island and got absolutely burnt by a pretty mediocre WR.  The packers paid dearly for trusting Williams.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, SSG said:

I'd imagine if Capers knew that Williams was going to let him guy run by him completely uncontested he'd have called a different defense.  A great throw and a bad call doesn't change the fact that it was terrible coverage.  Williams was on an island and got absolutely burnt by a pretty mediocre WR.  The packers paid dearly for trusting Williams.

 

"A perfect throw beats perfect coverage" is a saying for a reason. 

What makes it terrible coverage? He's not lined up to press. If he was lined up to press he'd have his back towards the middle of the field. Asking somebody to press and cover the entire route tree on a receiver is a dumbass thing to do. There's a reason that teams almost never play a Cover-0. 

[SSG]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

The TD Williams gave up to Kearse was an absolute dime throw, despite good coverage by Williams. A foot farther, it's overthrown, a foot shorter, Williams, at worst gets a PD,, at best an INT. While there was a myriad of poor plays in the last 4 minutes of that game that cost us a trip to the SB, that was not one of them. 

Good coverage?  He was supposed to let a WR run by him without contest with no help over the top?  A great throw doesn't change the fact that Williams got burnt.  Green Bay trusted him to play on an island and paid dearly for it.  Clearly, he needed help on the throw and I'd imagine if Capers knew that he was going to let Kearse run by uncontested that he'd have given him help.  

If you don't think the game ending TD had nothing to do with the loss we'll have to agree to disagree.  Our offense didn't get a chance to play for the win or to tie it again.  

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, SSG said:

Good coverage?  He was supposed to let a WR run by him without contest with no help over the top?  A great throw doesn't change the fact that Williams got burnt.  Green Bay trusted him to play on an island and paid dearly for it.  Clearly, he needed help on the throw and I'd imagine if Capers knew that he was going to let Kearse run by uncontested that he'd have given him help.  

If you don't think the game ending TD had nothing to do with the loss we'll have to agree to disagree.  Our offense didn't get a chance to play for the win or to tie it again.  

"On an island" doesn't mean Cover-0. Your standard Cover-1/Cover-3 "Island" defenses still protect a CB from a skinny post. 

[SSG]

10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

"A perfect throw beats perfect coverage" is a saying for a reason. 

What makes it terrible coverage? He's not lined up to press. If he was lined up to press he'd have his back towards the middle of the field. Asking somebody to press and cover the entire route tree on a receiver is a dumbass thing to do. There's a reason that teams almost never play a Cover-0. 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree.  That wasn't press man.  Williams let Kearse run right by him completely uncontested and got beat in the one spot where he knew he couldn't get beat.  You are right.  it was a dumb call.  Williams should have never been trusted with that job and we paid dearly for it.  I'd imagine if Capers knew that Kearse was going to get to the third level without so much as a hand on him he'd have brought some help over the top. Not sure what your definition of a press is but that isn't mine.  

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, SSG said:

We're gonna have to agree to disagree.  That wasn't press man.  Williams let Kearse run right by him completely uncontested and got beat in the one spot where he knew he couldn't get beat.  You are right.  it was a dumb call.  Williams should have never been trusted with that job and we paid dearly for it.  I'd imagine if Capers knew that Kearse was going to get to the third level without so much as a hand on him he'd have brought some help over the top. 

He couldn't get beat anywhere. That's the problem with the defense that was called. You're acting like there was one place he couldn't get beat. He was literally all by himself.

This was the basketball equivalent of Myles Plumlee getting switched onto Steph Curry during an iso, getting a hand right in his face, disrupting the shot, and Curry still drilling a 3. You can get mad at Plumlee for allowing the shot, but really he shouldn't have been in that spot in the first place and he still did an admirable job with it. The other guy's get paid too. 

This wasn't a standard call. Excellent CBs don't get left alone with Cover-0. There's a reason Earl Thomas is still playing hash to hash when Richard Sherman is playing CB. 

[SSG]

4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He couldn't get beat anywhere. That's the problem with the defense that was called. You're acting like there was one place he couldn't get beat. He was literally all by himself.

This was the basketball equivalent of Myles Plumlee getting switched onto Steph Curry during an iso, getting a hand right in his face, disrupting the shot, and Curry still drilling a 3. You can get mad at Plumlee for allowing the shot, but really he shouldn't have been in that spot in the first place and he still did an admirable job with it. The other guy's get paid too. 

This wasn't a standard call. Excellent CBs don't get left alone with Cover-0. There's a reason Earl Thomas is still playing hash to hash when Richard Sherman is playing CB. 

I'm not acting like anything.  I expect one of our highest paid defenders to do his job against a mediocre WR who hadn't managed a catch.  You are making it sound like we expected him to cover Randy Moss or Antonio Brown by himself when nothing could be further from reality.  I expected him to do his job.  I  expected him to play the defense that was called and press his man instead fo allowing him to get to the 3rd level completely uncontested.  Had Williams done his job and pressed his man we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

I  completely agree though, it was a terrible call.  There should have been help over the top so when Williams allowed his man to get to the end zone completely uncontested we'd have had a DB there to contest the WR.  

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, SSG said:

I'm not acting like anything.  I expect one of our highest paid defenders to do his job against a mediocre WR who hadn't managed a catch.  You are making it sound like we expected him to cover Randy Moss or Antonio Brown by himself when nothing could be further from reality.  I expected him to do his job.  I  expected him to play the defense that was called and press his man instead fo allowing him to get to the 3rd level completely uncontested.  Had Williams done his job and pressed his man we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

I  completely agree though, it was a terrible call.  There should have been help over the top so when Williams allowed his man to get to the end zone completely uncontested we'd have had a DB there to contest the WR.  

Why do you think this was press man?

Neither CB on either side lunges at their WR. If you're going to press to force a receiver to the outside, you don't line up that way. 

[SSG]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why do you think this was press man?

Neither CB on either side lunges at their WR. If you're going to press to force a receiver to the outside, you don't line up that way. 

I think its pretty clear that the other boundary CB pressed his man.  He was on the LOS and immediately got his hands on the WR.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, SSG said:

I think its pretty clear that the other boundary CB pressed his man.  He was on the LOS and immediately got his hands on the WR.

That looked like an intentional shooting of hands to you? The WR went right into the guy. 

[Packerraymond]

Anyone who thinks Tramon was burned on that play has a completely unrealistic definition of what a DB getting burned is.

The WR knows the route, the DB doesn't. It's man coverage with no help and if anything other than a perfect throw is made there, Tramon makes the play. That's some good coverage there.

[SSG]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

That looked like an intentional shooting of hands to you? The WR went right into the guy. 

He had his hands on the WR before taking a step backwards.  I'm not an expert but It looked like press man too me.  What do you think it was if not press?  I  doubt the plan was to let the WR get to the 3rd level before you think about putting a hand on him.