bruceb Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I want Hue to succeed so bad just to see how long it takes for people to get off his jock Why? He has failed horribly on many levels, including some marked by questionable morality. He deserved to be fired by now. He does not deserve to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pruitt3443 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 hours ago, bruceb said: Josh Allen ≈ Mike Phipps That is awesome, a Mike Phipps reference. Have to have been around awhile to remember him. He only cost us Paul Warfield and lost his job to a 13th round draft pick. Although that guy turned out pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I want Hue to succeed so bad just to see how long it takes for people to get off his jock Like @LETSGOBROWNIESsaid, everyone was excited about the Huebris hiring at the time. He was the #1 HC candidate that offseason. He brought a lot of hope to the fans and the franchise because he had a pretty stellar resume and did great things with Cincy. He literally has destroyed any leeway he had. He wrote too many checks that first year and in year 2nd they all bounced. The things that made the fans excited for him, he literally failed at them. He literally couldnt put together a proper coaching staff. Made hires that really made you scratch your head like him not hiring an OC but hiring Pep to be an offensive assistant with no position or him going to the CFL for his OL coach when there were plenty of more, well established NFL OL coaches. Hired a DC, he fired less than a year later. Makes me thing with all the new additions he made this year, that they were not all his decision, that the FO helped him. That is just the tip of the Hue sucks at coaching ice berg. Believe me, I wish Hue would be successful, god knows the browns deserve it. Its hard to truly trust the guy or really root for him when you literally cant believe the garbage he spews. Biggest one, him running his mouth about the record and saying he would jump into the lake. If he waits until the summer when the water is actually warm, its going to make him look like the biggest puss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I want it too. Do you think we all just hated Hue so much we rooted for losses? Go back and read the old site if you need to, I was his biggest fan when we hired him. People are “on his jock” because he’s been atrocious. When he no longer is gawdawful folks will come around. Until then you’re snarkily defending a 1-31 coach. If being critical of 1-31 isn’t reasonable I’m not sure what is. yeah man i was unabashedly pro hue during 1-15 but 0-16 is what got me god thats a ******************************************************************* super depressing desperate sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I think Hue is a bad coach. However, I hate him because of how he deflects blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I want it too. Do you think we all just hated Hue so much we rooted for losses? Go back and read the old site if you need to, I was his biggest fan when we hired him. People are “on his jock” because he’s been atrocious. When he no longer is gawdawful folks will come around. Until then you’re snarkily defending a 1-31 coach. If being critical of 1-31 isn’t reasonable I’m not sure what is. What snarky defense? People are entrenched against him at this point and deservedly so, but I want to see how many wins it takes to flip that script. It's silly season there hasn't been any new valid criticism launched against him in 3 months. Just rehashing the same points over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 hours ago, bruceb said: Why? He has failed horribly on many levels, including some marked by questionable morality. He deserved to be fired by now. He does not deserve to succeed. Players like him and trying new coaches just gets worse and worse every time we do it. I'm hoping that the roster we had last year was as unmanageable as Hue made it sound like. And Dorsey basically echoed that, which might giving the company line but it's feasible. It's April I can't be this pessimistic yet, I can't hate our coach that much before he effs things up once again. He got an OC, a QB, a proven WR, and a secondary. Those were the biggest issues we had. We get to see how Hue does when the entire operation isn't a complete joke (some of it his doing, some of it Sashi). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: I want Hue to succeed so bad just to see how long it takes for people to get off his jock 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I want it too. Do you think we all just hated Hue so much we rooted for losses? Go back and read the old site if you need to, I was his biggest fan when we hired him. People are “on his jock” because he’s been atrocious. When he no longer is gawdawful folks will come around. Until then you’re snarkily defending a 1-31 coach. If being critical of 1-31 isn’t reasonable I’m not sure what is. I don't really care about Hue Jackson doing well himself. I have no particular affinity for Hue Jackson the person/coach, but I just am and will always be of the opinion that you could've inserted any other of the coaching candidates into this situation and gotten similar results. And the specific mistakes of Hue are really no different than a wide variety of coaches around the league. The only thing most Browns fans don't follow other teams, their media, or the controversial decisions that teams' coach makes that gets washed away in the amnesia of winning. Because our fans only follow our team that means we thing our coaching issues are Unique to Us...and that our coach is uniquely bad a certain decisions...That the grass is greener on the other side. I followed other teams and discovered that numerous coaches were under fire in the media for consistent coaching errors; however, most of those coaches were able to survive such repeated issues because they eventually won...the fans/media let up... I compiled a list of coaches for whom experienced such repeated controversies last year...and specifically highlighted those with the issues Hue had.. On 1/5/2018 at 5:41 PM, Mind Character said: ------------------------------------------------------------ III. The Context of Other Coaches/Teams & their Seasonal Controversy: Even still the way that I view HCs in the league probably explains why I'm more guarded about my many criticisms of Hue's mistakes than others and don't scream out "Hue must be fired until then all is lost" every chance there is to talk about the Browns. B/c I watch and read about so many other teams it puts into context what our experience of what we as mostly insular Browns sports community fans think is unique. W-L record aside: This year alone the following coaches were embroiled in serious controversy (national and local criticism about their competence and mismanagement of the team) regarding HC issues (i.e., critical situational football errors, blaming/calling out players, playcalling struggles, end of game fatal errors, mismanagement of timeouts, not using personnel correctly, etc) **** === The coaches that have also had controversy regarding perceived "blaming of players." Interesting Note: Of these 19 coaches, 7 of them had readily available news stories about clashes or blaming of the Front Office. 1. Andy Reid 2. Pete Carroll**** 3. Adam Gase**** 4. Hue Jackson**** 5. Ron Rivera**** 6. Jason Garrett 7. Dirk Koetter**** 8, Mike Mularkey**** 9. Jay Gruden**** 10. Jack Del Rio**** 11. Ben Mcadoo 12. John Fox 13. Mike Mccarthy**** 14. Chuck Pagano 15. Marvin Lewis**** 16. Vance Joseph**** 17. Dan Quinn**** 18. Bruce Arians**** 19. Bill O'brien**** That's over half the league. Those teams' fans stomach the issues b/c they periodically experience a win that washes away the sins. We never have the chance to be renewed and eased by winning here. Those other teams have either have veteran QBs or talent/veterans surrounding a young QB (all except Deshaun Watson who was just amazing period) -------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, candyman93 said: I think Hue is a bad coach. However, I hate him because of how he deflects blame. The idea of coaches calling out players from time to time or "blaming players" openly through the media being some major terrible offense is an extremely interesting development in NFL fandom. It's really fascinating and really forgets the fact that even the best coaches have done this for decades in high profile ways and to much worse effect than saying (we need better players or guys need to run harder)... Jim Mora Sr. calling out players by name, Bill Parcells calling out players toughness and specific play repeatedly in the media, Bill Cowher calling out the CB play, Bill Walsh beating up the OLine and WR play, Mike Holmgren and his infamous our TEs are too good, Dan Reeves calling out LBs, Mike Shannahan with the Safeties in Denver and QBs and RBs in Washington...etc...and on and on... Somehow in the last 8 years with the rise of the Belichick buttoned up style...whenever a coach does this it's insane...and somehow Hue has been deemed violating some unbroken rule. It's really really funny. All of 2016...Hue blamed himself every press conference without a peep about player's play or Front office decision making...no one ever brings that up.. He did pull Kessler in favor of Josh Mccown to try to get a win and we've seen what Mccown did this year with the Jets. He then watched our team make minimal changes to the roster (Lose Terrelle Pryor, Trade Demario Davis, Cut Joe Haden, Sign Britt, Sign Zeitler, Tretter Add Osweiler and add all rookies)..that were definitely not a serious improvement of the team to get us to winning. Therefore, with a rookie QB again and such a young roster stuff was likely to lead to losing. He unfortunately couldn't hold his tongue and said some things that highlighted the deficiencies of the roster and the FO decision-making. That wasn't a contributor to the losing as much as the construction of the roster.. but of course everyone on this forum except for a few disagree with my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Mind Character said: The idea of coaches calling out players from time to time or "blaming players" openly through the media being some major terrible offense is an extremely interesting development in NFL fandom. It's really fascinating and really forgets the fact that even the best coaches have done this for decades in high profile ways and to much worse effect than saying (we need better players or guys need to run harder)... Jim Mora Sr. calling out players by name, Bill Parcells calling out players toughness and specific play repeatedly in the media, Bill Cowher calling out the CB play, Bill Walsh beating up the OLine and WR play, Mike Holmgren and his infamous our TEs are too good, Dan Reeves calling out LBs, Mike Shannahan with the Safeties in Denver and QBs and RBs in Washington...etc...and on and on... Somehow in the last 8 years with the rise of the Belichick buttoned up style...whenever a coach does this it's insane...and somehow Hue has been deemed violating some unbroken rule. It's really really funny. All of 2016...Hue blamed himself every press conference without a peep about player's play or Front office decision making...no one ever brings that up.. He did pull Kessler in favor of Josh Mccown to try to get a win and we've seen what Mccown did this year with the Jets. He then watched our team make minimal changes to the roster (Lose Terrelle Pryor, Trade Demario Davis, Cut Joe Haden, Sign Britt, Sign Zeitler, Tretter Add Osweiler and add all rookies)..that were definitely not a serious improvement of the team to get us to winning. Therefore, with a rookie QB again and such a young roster stuff was likely to lead to losing. He unfortunately couldn't hold his tongue and said some things that highlighted the deficiencies of the roster and the FO decision-making. That wasn't a contributor to the losing as much as the construction of the roster.. but of course everyone on this forum except for a few disagree with my opinion. The issue you bring up with coaches and the examples used shanny, holmgren, Walsh, Cowher, Parcells, and Mora that’s a list of 5 Super Bowl winning coaches and an extremely good coach. Those coaches earned the right to call players out because they knew what the hell they were doing. Hell they were even accountable for mistakes with their teams. Huebris calls out players but never accepts blame for himself. God forbid it was his bad game management or god awful game plans that cost the browns wins. Yea the roster was built for a tank but it wasn’t built to win one f’ing game in two years. Hell he even has the balls to say he is the only coach that could of handled the adversity of coaching the browns the last two years. Hue seriously has his head up his own arse. So deep that the bulge in his throat is his nose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I think we’re all emotional when it comes to Hue unless he wins a Super Bowl here it’ll be really tough for me to let it go he made my team go 0-16 But he’s got one more year with legit coordinators on both sides and a vet QB this is it for Hue I wish him everything goes as well as it can for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: What snarky defense? This isn’t your first post on the subject. Quote People are entrenched against him at this point and deservedly so, but I want to see how many wins it takes to flip that script. It's silly season there hasn't been any new valid criticism launched against him in 3 months. Just rehashing the same points over and over. When’s he jumping in the lake? Can we talk about that bit of bullsht or no? 10 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: Players like him Based on what? I’m not sure that was universal last season. Crowell and McCourtey seemed less than enthusiastic at times. If you’re basing it off the fact they played hard, don’t. Young kids play hard, they don’t know any better. It’s the vets that mail it in as the season wears on and you’re winless. The fact we had a young roster that competed doesn’t mean Hue was working miracles. Quote and trying new coaches just gets worse and worse every time we do it. I'm hoping that the roster we had last year was as unmanageable as Hue made it sound like. And Dorsey basically echoed that, which might giving the company line but it's feasible. Dorsey has no reason to defend last year’s roster. He took over for a team with 6ish proven Pro Bowl talents in KC and acts as if he built a competitive roster their, when in reality he found a QB, hired a good coach and did an Ok job drafting. Most of the core pieces were already there. He took a great gig there (talent and the number one pick) and did so here as well. If he honestly though the roster was talentless, he’d have at least interviewed for the Giants job when they were interested. Last year’s roster wasn’t great, no one is saying it was, but in the opinions of many here, it wasn’t 0-16 bad. I agree with that. Jason McCourtey did too if we need to add the name of someone associated with the team to try to add validity to our point. While many fans can be easily fooled in to believing their team is a little better than they are, not even the most pessimistic fans expected 0-16 last season. Almost universally people thought the roster was upgraded across the board from the previous season. Quote It's April I can't be this pessimistic yet, I can't hate our coach that much before he effs things up once again. I said the same thing. Last April. Quote He got an OC, a QB, a proven WR, and a secondary. Those were the biggest issues we had. We get to see how Hue does when the entire operation isn't a complete joke (some of it his doing, some of it Sashi). Sashi wasn’t trying to win, his goal was to make sure we were in a position to get a long term solution at QB and continue to build through the draft with a long term vision. That couldn’t be more obvious. His biggest mistake was letting Hue have a say in the decision. From all reports Hue didn’t like any of the rookie options enough to draft them, but then wanted to panic and trade a 2nd and 3rd for a QB who a couple months later signed a 2/10 deal on the open market. My biggest issues with Hue aren’t that he didn’t win with that roster because, as I said during the season, that roster wasn’t built to be a winner, by design. My issues with Hue are that he habitually panics, throws others under the bus and seemed unwilling to adjust his schemes or play calling to the talent provided. He mailed in a year of coaching in protest of the roster he acted as if he had no part in building. Also, thus far, he’s flat out reneged on a promise to the fans, once again showing a lack of ownership with last year’s issues. Let’s not forget the “I didn’t want to hire an OC because I didn’t want them to be blamed” nonsense. He didn’t hire one because he wanted to call plays, plain and simple. I get it, I would too if I were him, but don’t BS everyone when you fail, own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, brownie man said: I think we’re all emotional when it comes to Hue unless he wins a Super Bowl here it’ll be really tough for me to let it go he made my team go 0-16 But he’s got one more year with legit coordinators on both sides and a vet QB this is it for Hue I wish him everything goes as well as it can for him Hue could still be a bad coach but the team can be successful with the New OC, new QB, and DC. Its about Hue adding value to the team and actually making them reach their potential or exceed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 44 minutes ago, buno67 said: Its about Hue adding value to the team and actually making them reach their potential or exceed it. This. I’ve yet to see an example of how this team was better because of Hue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 hours ago, buno67 said: The issue you bring up with coaches and the examples used shanny, holmgren, Walsh, Cowher, Parcells, and Mora that’s a list of 5 Super Bowl winning coaches and an extremely good coach. Those coaches earned the right to call players out because they knew what the hell they were doing. Hell they were even accountable for mistakes with their teams. Huebris calls out players but never accepts blame for himself. God forbid it was his bad game management or god awful game plans that cost the browns wins. Yea the roster was built for a tank but it wasn’t built to win one f’ing game in two years. Hell he even has the balls to say he is the only coach that could of handled the adversity of coaching the browns the last two years. Hue seriously has his head up his own arse. So deep that the bulge in his throat is his nose! And they did it all after they won SBs right?? Wrong... I could stop the list short but I could easily have brought up other names of non-SB winning coaches that are well respected for whom did the same. Funny thing is if I did it would probably job your memory back to "Ah...yeah... I do remember that and that being a famous clip they played on Sportscenter back in the day)... But beyond those coaches, here's a look back at this past year and coaching controversies based on their respective teams' media/fans coverage....this includes things we know Hue has done and of course includes the dreaded "calling players and FO out" ("we're not equipped right now for that, the RBs need to inspire me to call a play...) On 1/5/2018 at 5:41 PM, Mind Character said: ------------------------------------------------------------ III. The Context of Other Coaches/Teams & their Seasonal Controversy: Even still the way that I view HCs in the league probably explains why I'm more guarded about my many criticisms of Hue's mistakes than others and don't scream out "Hue must be fired until then all is lost" every chance there is to talk about the Browns. B/c I watch and read about so many other teams it puts into context what our experience of what we as mostly insular Browns sports community fans think is unique. W-L record aside: This year alone the following coaches were embroiled in serious controversy (national and local criticism about their competence and mismanagement of the team) regarding HC issues (i.e., critical situational football errors, blaming/calling out players, playcalling struggles, end of game fatal errors, mismanagement of timeouts, not using personnel correctly, etc) **** === The coaches that have also had controversy regarding perceived "blaming of players." Interesting Note: Of these 19 coaches, 7 of them had readily available news stories about clashes or blaming of the Front Office. 1. Andy Reid 2. Pete Carroll**** 3. Adam Gase**** 4. Hue Jackson**** 5. Ron Rivera**** 6. Jason Garrett 7. Dirk Koetter**** 8, Mike Mularkey**** 9. Jay Gruden**** 10. Jack Del Rio**** 11. Ben Mcadoo 12. John Fox 13. Mike Mccarthy**** 14. Chuck Pagano 15. Marvin Lewis**** 16. Vance Joseph**** 17. Dan Quinn**** 18. Bruce Arians**** 19. Bill O'brien**** That's over half the league. Those teams' fans stomach the issues b/c they periodically experience a win that washes away the sins. We never have the chance to be renewed and eased by winning here. Those other teams have either have veteran QBs or talent/veterans surrounding a young QB (all except Deshaun Watson who was just amazing period) -------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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