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[J-ALL-DAY]

And I keep hearing you don't need a great WR to win a SB. Sure, but the Eagles just won without a great corner either or anyone close to Pro Bowl level (Robinson was very good in the slot). So should we not put a big emphasis at the CB position? Should teams stop drafting QBs before the 3rd round since four of the past five super bowls have come from QBs drafted in the third round or later? Super Bowl teams come from different shapes and forms. You can't convince me a great WR doesn't have a big impact on your team.

[Forge]

50 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And I keep hearing you don't need a great WR to win a SB. Sure, but the Eagles just won without a great corner either or anyone close to Pro Bowl level (Robinson was very good in the slot). So should we not put a big emphasis at the CB position? Should teams stop drafting QBs before the 3rd round since four of the past five super bowls have come from QBs drafted in the third round or later? Super Bowl teams come from different shapes and forms. You can't convince me a great WR doesn't have a big impact on your team.

I can't believe you would besmirch the name of Ronald Darby in this manner! I mean, it's accurate, but still besmirchment!

[J-ALL-DAY]

Darby at his best is really good. Him being healthy next season with Sidney Jones getting in the action? Damn. 

[big9erfan]

50 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And I keep hearing you don't need a great WR to win a SB. Sure, but the Eagles just won without a great corner either or anyone close to Pro Bowl level (Robinson was very good in the slot). So should we not put a big emphasis at the CB position? Should teams stop drafting QBs before the 3rd round since four of the past five super bowls have come from QBs drafted in the third round or later? Super Bowl teams come from different shapes and forms. You can't convince me a great WR doesn't have a big impact on your team.

I don't think anyone is saying that a great WR isn't a good thing to have. I really want one. If we dropped to the mid 20s and took Ridley or Sutton I would be surprised but not disappointed. But if you had to "force rank" positional value where would WR come in your list? QB first for sure. Then pass rushers. For me then it's CB. Yeah, I think that position is clearly more important than WR so I don't think teams can ignore it. There's a potential TD waiting to happen for the opposition every time a CB fails to cover well.  Probablyu LT falls into that gbroup of positions that has "special value" to me. After that though it's all a toss up.  You don't need an all pro G or C, but you need a good interior o-line. In the same way you don't need an all pro receiver, but you do need a good receiving corps. It's even a little more complicated than that for me because how good of a WR receiving corps you need also depends on how good your TE is and how much you use that position in yourt offense, and how good your backs are catching passes and how much you use them. The more you use your TE and RBs and make your slot receiver the primary target on a play the less important WRs become. An so the less important a stud WR becomes. I'd love an all pro G, an all pro C, an all pro LB and an all pro WR, but we play with multiple interior line guys, and multiple LBs, and nultiple pass catching targets. Any one stud in those groups are going to have incrementally less value. You even have to question whether one stud WR and one dud is better than two guys that are very good but just short of pro bowl level. I would be as happy to get a great TE ins  the second as I would be to get one of the WRs projected there because I think in terms of our overall receiving corps. A great TE would add as much additional firepower to the offense as a great WR (maybe not in general but over what we likely have in Goodwin and Garcon)

[J-ALL-DAY]

It depends on the team you have. Great QB is unquestionably #1 obviously and then you would like a good pass rush. However, after that it could go in a lot of different directions. If my team is going to likely have to score a lot of points to win, then I'd value a WR more so if I had a good defense and just needed solid play from the position. Ala our team from 2011-2013. We had good WRs, but that's all we needed since the defense was so damn good. Some teams don't value the ILB position as much as others, but that was THE strength of our team with Willis/Bowman. Obviously the front was also damn good with featuring the Smith bros. But how about our corners?

So yeah, I just don't get the point of devaluing certain positions when it usually comes down to the make up of your team. Shanny almost won in SB, and a BIG reason for that would have been due to the dominant play from Julio Jones who was wrecking every defense during that playoff run. 

[Forge]

58 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Darby at his best is really good. Him being healthy next season with Sidney Jones getting in the action? Damn. 

I still wonder if he's not on the block. Makes a lot of sense as a potential trade chip for them. 

[Forge]

47 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

I don't think anyone is saying that a great WR isn't a good thing to have. I really want one. If we dropped to the mid 20s and took Ridley or Sutton I would be surprised but not disappointed

I would be lol 

Though there was a rumor earlier this off season that we liked Sutton. 

[Ronnie's Pinky]

1 hour ago, big9erfan said:

For me then it's CB. Yeah, I think that position is clearly more important than WR so I don't think teams can ignore it. There's a potential TD waiting to happen for the opposition every time a CB fails to cover well.

WR and CB are two sides of the same coin, both vital to the success of the edge passing game. I understand, however, why many people think corners are more important. It is as Bill Walsh said (paraphrasing): "You can have a lot of success on offense through schemes and misdirection. On defense, you simply need great athletes."

This doesn't change the fact that WR is just as important a part of the "edge passing equation" as are LT, DE and CB. It's just harder to find transcendent talents at WR, and easier to get by with middling talent at the position (Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon, anyone?) if you've got high-end offensive play-calling. Nevertheless, I maintain that a game-breaking wide receiver is every bit as impactful as the best corner, tackle or defensive end.

[oldman9er]

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, Ronnie's Pinky said:

WR and CB are two sides of the same coin, both vital to the success of the edge passing game. I understand, however, why many people think corners are more important. It is as Bill Walsh said (paraphrasing): "You can have a lot of success on offense through schemes and misdirection. On defense, you simply need great athletes."

This doesn't change the fact that WR is just as important a part of the "edge passing equation" as are LT, DE and CB. It's just harder to find transcendent talents at WR, and easier to get by with middling talent at the position (Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon, anyone?) if you've got high-end offensive play-calling. Nevertheless, I maintain that a game-breaking wide receiver is every bit as impactful as the best corner, tackle or defensive end.

Honestly, the quote from Bill Walsh sums it up for me in how I prioritize wide receivers...that being said, I would never discount what a game changer like OBJ brings to the table and am totally open to it at the right price. But typically, I do think that wide receivers such as that are a luxury, not a requirement, particularly if you have a brilliant offensive mind at the helm. 

[John232]

Just now, Forge said:

Honestly, the quote from Bill Walsh sums it up for me in how I prioritize wide receivers...that being said, I would never discount what a game changer like OBJ brings to the table and am totally open to it at the right price. But typically, I do think that wide receivers such as that are a luxury, not a requirement, particularly if you have a brilliant offensive mind at the helm. 

Eh, I would counter that they only become a luxury when you have a really creative offense. Seeing what happens when elite receivers get injured in non-elite offenses becomes catastrophic for those teams. AJ Green missing time typically kills the Bengals offense. NYG turned to solid crap on offense because of their passing game. Even with someone like AR15, Jags fans felt that his loss was pretty huge and made the offense substantially worse despite all their receivers stepping up. Although I ultimately agree with that elite receivers are a luxury, not a need for us...i'd say that receiver is of paramount importance to most offenses that aren't run by geniuses. I'd argue that after the QB, LT and C, WR is the most important position on offense. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, John232 said:

Eh, I would counter that they only become a luxury when you have a really creative offense. Seeing what happens when elite receivers get injured in non-elite offenses becomes catastrophic for those teams. AJ Green missing time typically kills the Bengals offense. NYG turned to solid crap on offense because of their passing game. Even with someone like AR15, Jags fans felt that his loss was pretty huge and made the offense substantially worse despite all their receivers stepping up. Although I ultimately agree with that elite receivers are a luxury, not a need for us...i'd say that receiver is of paramount importance to most offenses that aren't run by geniuses. I'd argue that after the QB, LT and C, WR is the most important position on offense. 

Which I believe that we do, so I see OBJ as a luxury for us. I have no issues with the weapons we have at present, provided they actually catch the ball consistently lol. 

[Ronnie's Pinky]

3 minutes ago, John232 said:

Eh, I would counter that they only become a luxury when you have a really creative offense.

Yeah, agreed...lucky for us, we have Kyle.

I'm not of the opinion that the team has a big need at WR at the moment, in spite of the fact that the current talent at that position is probably no more than above average. But if we didn't have Kyle, wide receiver would be a much bigger deal.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie's Pinky said:

Yeah, agreed...lucky for us, we have Kyle.

I'm not of the opinion that the team has a big need at WR at the moment, in spite of the fact that the current talent at that position is probably no more than above average. But if we didn't have Kyle, wide receiver would be a much bigger deal.

My stance as well. I just want everyone to catch the freaking ball. I'm tired of being among the league leaders in drops. I think every year but one for the last 7 we have been inside the top 5 or so with regards to drop percentage. Very frustrating (I can't remember the exact figures...it may not be that bad, but it's not far off) 

[John232]

That said, we're only 3 deep on reliable targets, two of which have injury issues. I still wouldn't be surprised to see us address receiver soon. Just to have a guy waiting in the wings post Garcon at the very least.