Cheese Curds: Green Bay Packers Updates

[swede700]

On 7/17/2018 at 2:40 PM, skywindO2 said:

Some tongue splittingly hot takes in this thread. 

[Uncle Buck]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:57 AM, Arthur Penske said:

Cousins is not a bad QB. I think most people can objectively see that. He's also hasn't been great and certainly not elite like some Viking fans want to claim now that he's in MN. I'd say good QB is a proper label to put on him based on his play so far. 

While Cousins certainly has a stake in his poor record vs winning teams; for the love of God, W-L record is not a QB stat, its a team stat.

Vikings are obv a good team and I think putting them at 8-8 is not smart. Without a big injury or something they will obv be in hunt to win the division again.

@Krauser, I hope your defense sleeps on Jimmy Graham like some of your fans are 

Arthur, what do you think the net effect will be in going from Jordy Nelson to Jimmy Graham?  I know they play different positions, but I'm guessing Graham will play a big role in the offense this season.  When it comes to Jordy, he was a great receiver, but I didn't really think he came back to 100% after that knee injury.  It probably made sense to move on from him when the Packers did.  I guess a better way to word my question is "do you think a great tight end will be enough to make up for the loss of Jordy Nelson?"

[Spartacus]

46 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

Arthur, what do you think the net effect will be in going from Jordy Nelson to Jimmy Graham?  I know they play different positions, but I'm guessing Graham will play a big role in the offense this season.  When it comes to Jordy, he was a great receiver, but I didn't really think he came back to 100% after that knee injury.  It probably made sense to move on from him when the Packers did.  I guess a better way to word my question is "do you think a great tight end will be enough to make up for the loss of Jordy Nelson?"

I think they fill the same roll at this point in their careers. Double digit TD guys that will probably average out to around 60 yards a game. There are all sorts of opinions on Jordy though. 

Some think he is done, others thought it was totally on Hundley, others thought he was still a decent red zone or slot threat. Either way something had to give between Cobb and Jordy and Cobb being younger and playing the same position won out. I think Nelson still has one good year left possibly but I think him and Graham around about equal at this point in their career with the edge going to Graham because of the position he plays. Just my opinion though. 

FYI Cousins is a good QB. Don't put me in with that other Packer fan. 

[Arthur Penske]

2 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

Arthur, what do you think the net effect will be in going from Jordy Nelson to Jimmy Graham?  I know they play different positions, but I'm guessing Graham will play a big role in the offense this season.  When it comes to Jordy, he was a great receiver, but I didn't really think he came back to 100% after that knee injury.  It probably made sense to move on from him when the Packers did.  I guess a better way to word my question is "do you think a great tight end will be enough to make up for the loss of Jordy Nelson?"

 

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

I think they fill the same roll at this point in their careers. Double digit TD guys that will probably average out to around 60 yards a game. There are all sorts of opinions on Jordy though. 

Some think he is done, others thought it was totally on Hundley, others thought he was still a decent red zone or slot threat. Either way something had to give between Cobb and Jordy and Cobb being younger and playing the same position won out. I think Nelson still has one good year left possibly but I think him and Graham around about equal at this point in their career with the edge going to Graham because of the position he plays. Just my opinion though. 

FYI Cousins is a good QB. Don't put me in with that other Packer fan. 

I would agree with Spartacus. FWIW, Rodgers has said very favorable things of Jimmy Graham so far.

I think if Adams, Cobb, and Graham stay healthy the offense will be very good  but may need some bigger than desired contributions from young bucks.

[Arthur Penske]

On 7/16/2018 at 6:58 PM, vike daddy said:

Keenum's errant throws in most every game were SOOOOO helped out by the acrobatics of his wide receivers. we would have won fewer games without their efforts to come down with the ball.

Is this exclusive to Keenum? Does every QB not get helped out by this?

[swede700]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Is this exclusive to Keenum? Does every QB not get helped out by this?

Every QB gets helped out to a certain degree, but if you watched Keenum as much as we did a year ago, he was helped far more frequently than the average NFL starting QB.  He wasn't exactly the most accurate passer.    

[Spartacus]

1 minute ago, disaacs said:

Every QB gets helped out to a certain degree, but if you watched Keenum as much as we did a year ago, he was helped far more frequently than the average NFL starting QB.  He wasn't exactly the most accurate passer.    

I watched Keenum a lot last year I think the argument could also be made that O line looked better than it would have with a statue QB like Cousins would. Although I still think Cousins is by far the better QB either way. I could be in the wrong there but it looked like Keenum got himself out of a lot of long down situations. 

[RpMc]

Keenum did escape pressures on occasion and made plays that I don’t see Cousins making in similar situations. That being said, Keenum missed a lot of wide open receivers by not being able to make appropriate pre-snap reads and moving through his progressions (a strength of Cousins). 

[Spartacus]

On 7/20/2018 at 12:59 PM, RpMc said:

Keenum did escape pressures on occasion and made plays that I don’t see Cousins making in similar situations. That being said, Keenum missed a lot of wide open receivers by not being able to make appropriate pre-snap reads and moving through his progressions (a strength of Cousins). 

Totally agree and as a Packers fan it scares me with the amount of talent the Vikings have on defense that they could have possibly an above average QB. I'm holding out hope that the O line crumbles and with it Cousins but make no mistake in thinking that I know that this isn't the most realistic expectation. 

[Krauser]

I keep saying the Packers passing game has dropped off over the last 3 years, and I know we discussed Rodgers' decline in yards per attempt when it happened in 2015, but even so, this table from the FO Almanac is still eye-popping: 

Commentary from Scott Kacsmar: 

Quote

Remember when the Packers were the best front-running team in the NFL? Those days are over. In first quarters, Rodgers’ YPA has dropped from a dazzling 8.81 to a dismal 6.71. Rodgers only trailed by multiple scores in the second half 23 times in his first 121 games (19.0 percent). He has done so 16 times in his last 37 games (43.2 percent), often playing catch-up after slow starts.

Maybe the most shocking split is on first down, where Rodgers’ 6.53 YPA is 38th in the NFL since 2015. He only ranks ahead of Joe Flacco (6.35), DeShone Kizer (6.19), and Brock Osweiler (6.10). Coaching may explain some of the first- down issues in 2017. Rodgers’ first-down ALEX was -4.6, the lowest in the NFL, and backup Brett Hundley ranked 31st at -3.3. The Packers were very conservative with short throws on first downs last season.

...

That’s also what gets us back to Nelson, and namely that play-action bomb that was once so successful. With that element lacking in this offense the last three years, we have seen Green Bay’s play-action game completely fall apart. At his peak, Rodgers averaged 10.8 YPA on play-action, the best in the game. Since 2015, he is down to 6.4 YPA, which is onlyabove Kizer (5.39), his new backup... We have never found a link between rushing success and play-action success,so Rodgers’ struggles can’t simply be blamed on an anemic rushing attack.

McCarthy has taken some heat in recent years for the design of the offense. We can also see this in Rodgers’ YPA against the blitz, which has dropped from 8.58 to 6.76. Where are the quick-hitting plays with YAC? Nelson used to be a great “early blocker” on those plays as someone like Cobb got easy yardage. Rodgers’ passes have still earned an above-average amount of YAC since 2015, but this offense no longer makes anything look easy.

The only area where Rodgers’ YPA hasn’t significantly decreased has been under pressure, which speaks to his increased reliance on scrambling around to make things happen. It doesn’t help that Rodgers has had his three highest pressure rates since 2009 in the last three years. If the Packers want to get back to the glory days of offensive efficiency and more on-time plays, it could help that Joe Philbin has returned as offensive coordinator to replace a fired Edgar Bennett, who served in the role since 2015. Bennett was not the playcaller, and Philbin’s goal, according to himself in January, is to do what he did from 2007 to 2011: “[Make] Mike McCarthy look like the smartest playcaller in the NFL.”

Summing that up: the Packers pass offense hasn't been able to generate yards except when it absolutely has to (3rd or 4th down, red zone, trailing late in games). Rodgers' incredible ability to improvise and create in those situations is the one reason GB has been able to finish drives and keep scoring, and his great TD/INT ratio has masked what is otherwise a bottom 5 pass offense run by the best QB in the game. 

The Packers are hoping that trend is reversed this year, but on the face of it, Rodgers will be working with the worst week-one OL he's had for years, and the least impressive group of WRs save for the 2015 season when Nelson got hurt. Joe Philbin will deserve serious credit if he can turn things around. 

[vike daddy]

Packers right tackle Bryan Bulaga tore his ACL last November and didn’t take part in the team’s offseason program, so there wasn’t anything out of the ordinary about the team’s decision to put him on the physically unable to perform list this week. Given the timing of Bulaga’s injury and his overall injury history, some concern about his readiness for the start of the season might have been expected as well. That wasn’t the case when Packers coach Mike McCarthy spoke to the media on Thursday, however.

McCarthy said Bulaga “looks great” and didn’t express any doubt that Bulaga or linebacker Nick Perry, who is on PUP due to an ankle injury, will be ready to go come the regular season.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/26/bryan-bulaga-on-pup-but-expected-to-be-ready-for-regular-season/

[swede700]

 

[vike daddy]

As it turns out, that boot Randall Cobb was wearing this summer was no big deal. The Packers wide receiver began practicing as normal when the team began training camp, and his coach saw nothing to worry about, especially after he caught a deep ball in practice.

Mike McCarthy: “Randall Cobb looks great. The first play where the ball goes deep to Randall, I think that tells you about his health status.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/no-limitations-for-randall-cobb-in-packers-camp/

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

On 7/24/2018 at 10:18 AM, Krauser said:

I keep saying the Packers passing game has dropped off over the last 3 years, and I know we discussed Rodgers' decline in yards per attempt when it happened in 2015, but even so, this table from the FO Almanac is still eye-popping: 

Commentary from Scott Kacsmar: 

Summing that up: the Packers pass offense hasn't been able to generate yards except when it absolutely has to (3rd or 4th down, red zone, trailing late in games). Rodgers' incredible ability to improvise and create in those situations is the one reason GB has been able to finish drives and keep scoring, and his great TD/INT ratio has masked what is otherwise a bottom 5 pass offense run by the best QB in the game. 

The Packers are hoping that trend is reversed this year, but on the face of it, Rodgers will be working with the worst week-one OL he's had for years, and the least impressive group of WRs save for the 2015 season when Nelson got hurt. Joe Philbin will deserve serious credit if he can turn things around. 

I think you may be missing a few things:

2015 was a year where the offense was hamstrung by skill position injuries- Nelson was lost with the ACL, Cobb was playing through a shoulder injury that never healed, Adams had the high ankle sprain which he should never have played on, Montgomery only played in 6 games, Eddie Lacy sprained both ankles.  The Packers actually didn't have enough WR's left to run a two point conversion at the end of the NFC championship game.

Since 2017 was a short season for Rodgers, the stats are heavily shifted due to the 2015 debacle.

Rodgers isn't young anymore, but I think you are getting your hopes up if you think he is in decline.  His biggest issue right now is propensity to injury with 2 seasons with collarbone injuries, and multiple with lower leg calf injuries that have slowed him down.

Oh, and by the way, last year was the worst OL to start the season by far.  Much worse than this year.

[vike daddy]

anyone else know who Ragnar Danneskjold is...?

 

 

 

hint: he's a fictional character from a best selling piece of literature. name the book, and his two best friends/partners.