College Football / NFL Draft Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

@Iamcanadian I have no idea if I believe your last post, but it's a hell of a story either way.

[FGK]

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And I'm 31, so I must be better than Tom Brady, who is 40.

A rookie season is a lot like a first date. You usually don't know if he/she is THE ONE but sometimes you know when he/she IS NOT the one. Kizer isn't it.

Trubisky and Kizer are both comparable in completion percentage (47% to 52%, both terrible), Kizer has a 3-11 TD/INT Ratio compared to 2-2 for Trub, and Kizer's rating is a whopping 51.1 to a 66.3 to Kizer.

Rosen is looking good on a bad team. Kizer is looking inept on an inept team. Pretty big difference. Ask Jared Goff.

Barring injury, I'd bet good money that Rosen is drafted A LOT higher than Kizer.

Also, funny how much better Notre Dame is doing this year without Kizer. I bet he was a part of the reason that they were so bad last year.

I haven't figured out how to fancy split, so I'll just do one sentence per chunk lol.

1. Come on, that's willfully obtuse. Age can't be the #1 factor, but you'd expect a 24 year old rookie to be more polished than a 21 year old right? It's not huge, but it's not nothing.

2. I mean, it can, or it can turn around. Goff looked historically bad last year and Wentz looked barely meh. QB takes time to develop, maybe moreso than ever now with the coaching and offensive styles at the college level.

3. We really trying to polish the Mitch Trubisky turd?

4. I don't get this one. Goff was one of the worst QBs in NFL history last year statistically speaking.

5. I mean, no $%^& sherlock. Who exactly is arguing against this.

6. Notre Dame COMPLETELY changed their offense man. You can't just say this stuff if you don't watch the games. They're running a wing T with a bunch of QB runs. They also had a huge NFL exodus in 2016 that sapped the 2017 team from which they've started to recover.

 

I'm not sure if Kizer will pan out or not, but IMO this post was really unfair and seemed to be motivated more by wanting to rub brownie's nose in it than in rational argumentation.

[Iamcanadian]

40 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

Free Agent Signing = Carlos Hyde RB, DeVante Adams WR

1st Round 1st Pick = Sam Darnold QB USC

1st Round 6th Pick = Minkah Fitzpatrick FS Alabama

2nd Round 33rd Pick = Josh Adams RB Notre Dame

2nd Round 39th Pick = Brian O'Neil OT Pittsburgh or Martinas Rankin OT Mississippi State

2nd Round 56th Pick = Parris Campbell WR Ohio State or Michael Gallup WR Colorado State

3rd Round 65th Pick = Kurt Benkert QB Virginia

4th Round ??? Pick = Jaylyn Holmes DE Ohio State

4th Round ??? Pick = MJ Stewart CB North Carolina

5th-7th Round = I have no idea I don't know enough players. Biggest, Strongest, Fastest guy you can find.

 

What do you think of my first ever mock draft?

 

Before Letsgo quizzes me about the background of each player I openly admit I have not researched these guys in depth nor will I ever as that is not my job. My job is to have fun watching and talking sports. I have watched these guys on TV and on youtube and that is it. I do not have access to this all 22 Mind is always talking about and I have no game film as I am not a college or NFL employee.

 

 

I do not have a great problem with your draft, other than I believe Rankin is by far a higher ranked prospect than O'Neil. What I do object to is rather simple. Cleveland needs to commit this draft to offense and I would not touch defense till round 4. For the 6th pick, I would go WR or RB, whoever is ranked higher and take the other position with the next pick. Because the draft is such a crap shoot, I would double up on RB and WR just in case, because if we get it right, our offense could be top notch within 2 or 3 years.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I haven't figured out how to fancy split, so I'll just do one sentence per chunk lol.

LOL. You just hit enter a couple of times after each word that you want to.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

1. Come on, that's willfully obtuse. Age can't be the #1 factor, but you'd expect a 24 year old rookie to be more polished than a 21 year old right? It's not huge, but it's not nothing.

I was making an absurd example because the reasoning itself is absurd. Kudos to the use of obtuse, it gave me a nice Shawshank warm fuzzy. We've heard over and over from him about how since he's 21 he's basically automatically superior to every other prospect. That's ridiculous.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

2. I mean, it can, or it can turn around. Goff looked historically bad last year and Wentz looked barely meh. QB takes time to develop, maybe moreso than ever now with the coaching and offensive styles at the college level.

I hope you're right. However, Wentz showed major flashes of being good last year. Goff was the #1 overall pick of the draft without an OL or any receiving weapons to speak of...pre draft evaluation matters in my opinion.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

3. We really trying to polish the Mitch Trubisky turd?

No. I wasn't the one who brought him up. I brought up Watson.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

4. I don't get this one. Goff was one of the worst QBs in NFL history last year statistically speaking.

The Goff example was to show that he was also a hard guy to evaluate, with an atrocious record at California, and yet he was still the #1 overall pick, just like Rosen is playing on a horrible UCLA team, making him hard to evaluate as well.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

5. I mean, no $%^& sherlock. Who exactly is arguing against this.

The poster I was responding to who called Kizer a superior prospect in almost every way.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

6. Notre Dame COMPLETELY changed their offense man. You can't just say this stuff if you don't watch the games. They're running a wing T with a bunch of QB runs. They also had a huge NFL exodus in 2016 that sapped the 2017 team from which they've started to recover.

I'm well aware. I felt like taking a ridiculous pot shot at a poster who refuses to acknowledge he's wrong, ever to show how infuriating it can be arguing with someone who will do the same.

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I'm not sure if Kizer will pan out or not, but IMO this post was really unfair and seemed to be motivated more by wanting to rub brownie's nose in it than in rational argumentation.

When someone fires their mouth off for an entire year about how right he is, how wrong everyone else is, calling others ignorant/using opinions as facts, they have whatever's coming their way in return if they continue doing more of the same.

[Aztec Hammer]

44 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

No way in heck we need one of our two big FA signings to be an RB AND to take one in the 2nd. One or the other, cool. But no need for both.

I don't buy Darnold coming out, I think he's going back, and if he did come out, man I'd be nervous to take him over some of the other QBs who have actually looked good this year.

Really like Fitzpatrick there, and I like OT and WR in the 2nd.

Which of the draftable QBs have looked better than Darnold this year? Baker Mayfield, that's it. And that's only in terms of as a college QB.

Darnold's struggles have been so far overblown this year, primarily because of the turnovers. As soon as he was massively hyped up, everyone has been waiting to crush him back down. 

Even this year he has still shown a more pro potential skillset with his combination of throws, pocket movement and progressions than any of the other highly touted prospects. Lamar Jackson is a ridiculous set of wheels with a big arm and little more. People seem determined to claim he's progressed as a passer but if that's the case, he must have been downright awful because he's still not all that. Rosen is a smooth passer and has great timing throwing crossers in the middle of the field but his skillset is overblown the more I watch him. Arm isn't all that and he's telegraphing passes to the outside that will be picked off for fun in the NFL. Baker Mayfield looks like a great college QB throwing to wide open receivers off of zone reads and rollouts but I'm not seeing Drew Brees or Russell Wilson. Josh Allen has spectacular tools but it struggling to throw over 100 yards every week it seems.

The only reason Darnold goes back to school is to avoid the Browns. He's the number one pick all day long.

[FGK]

1 hour ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Which of the draftable QBs have looked better than Darnold this year? Baker Mayfield, that's it. And that's only in terms of as a college QB.

Oof. I just don't agree at all. Which is fine, people who both know what to look for look at guys all the time and have different takeaways. But from a purely "looked better this year" perspective, all three of those guys have looked better than Darnold. Now we can argue traits, vision, surrounding talent, etc. But I don't see how Darnold could be considered to have had a better year than the other three at all.

BTW, I think Lamar Jackson is gonna surprise people. He needs a ton of work on consistency, but he makes a lot of throws that are next level good, and he has a lot of drops that I watch and go, "hmm, that looks like our WRs!" in that his receivers are baaaaad this year.

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Yes, I am 74!!! Born July 25, 1943

 

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

@Iamcanadian I have no idea if I believe your last post, but it's a hell of a story either way.

Yeah I don't believe it either, he seems more like a born in June type guy. As far as that being a great story... well, I dunno.

 

Maybe you meant his second to last post but if that is the case I wouldn't have had anything to add. Either way, I pointed out your flaw, flawboy.

[Aztec Hammer]

4 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Oof. I just don't agree at all. Which is fine, people who both know what to look for look at guys all the time and have different takeaways. But from a purely "looked better this year" perspective, all three of those guys have looked better than Darnold. Now we can argue traits, vision, surrounding talent, etc. But I don't see how Darnold could be considered to have had a better year than the other three at all.

BTW, I think Lamar Jackson is gonna surprise people. He needs a ton of work on consistency, but he makes a lot of throws that are next level good, and he has a lot of drops that I watch and go, "hmm, that looks like our WRs!" in that his receivers are baaaaad this year.

Fair post. I agree wth you that at this point, there can't really be a right or wrong answer because we're all looking for different traits and none of them have played a down in the NFL.

Over here, we've had a couple of full games of Jackson and Mayfield this year, 3 of Rosen and almost all of Darnold's. So I admit I'm probably more qualified to judge Darnold this year than I am the other three. But I do stand by it, I think Darnold's struggles have been highly overplayed. I think his potential is so damn high, I'd love for us to take him.

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion on Jackson, but I have a feeling he needs to be in a very specific situation and I'm just not sure he's right for us. Same with Mayfield. I don't count them out though.

[Dogbite]

Tough crowd. I'll address only the ones that stood out to me.

1. We have the resources in cap space and draft picks there should be no worries in doubling down on any offensive skill position. Carlos Hyde and Josh Adams would not even be close to over kill. RBs get hurt all the time and sometimes backs need a breather. Some times FA signings don't pan out and some times young rookie RBs are not quite up to par and you need veteran supplementation.

2. Upset over Sam Darnold being the #1 overall pick? Fine I honestly don't care I just picked the hot name. If it is Rosen then it is Rosen If it is Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Baker Mayfield or Clayton Thurson then I am fine with that too but we are 98% locked into taking a QB 1st overall. Honestly the most impressive QB I have seen is Kurt Benkert, however, see as people far smarter than myself in the football world haven't been calling him a 1st round pick I don't see it happening. I think he is a fine prospect but will probably be a 2nd/3rd round guy.

3. Are we seriously going to be hating on Minkah Fitzpatrick  because we didn't take a WR? First of all there is not a single WR int his draft worth a Top 10 pick let alone worthy of being picked over Fitzpatrick just because of a need. Second of all how are you going to act like FS is not our greatest weakness on defense? We have and extremely young extremely untapped defense that is still a Top 10 unit even despite only being in the system for 1 year and many guys only being in the league less than 3 years. If you add time and a dominant FS like Fitzpatrick so Peppers can play closer to the line where he is at his best then suddenly you have the makings of a Top 3 defense for half decade or better year in and year out.

[FGK]

1 hour ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion on Jackson, but I have a feeling he needs to be in a very specific situation and I'm just not sure he's right for us. Same with Mayfield. I don't count them out though.

Definitely with you here. In fact, if we stick with Hue, I definitely wouldn't want Jackson and would lean away from Mayfield. I think both need much more creative offensive minds (somebody like Reid or McVay).

[bosko1616]

Question how do you guys feel about Damien Harris from Bama. I look at this kid. Former 5 Star RB stuck behind stellar guys every year. Shines immediately. Looking at a 3rd round grade. I think there’s some serious untapped potential and if given a lead roll I think he could be special. And how would you guys feel if we double dipped and took both he and Scarbrough 

[AkronsWitness]

12 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

Question how do you guys feel about Damien Harris from Bama. I look at this kid. Former 5 Star RB stuck behind stellar guys every year. Shines immediately. Looking at a 3rd round grade. I think there’s some serious untapped potential and if given a lead roll I think he could be special. And how would you guys feel if we double dipped and took both he and Scarbrough 

I dont trust any Alabama RB in the NFL. Trent Richardson blew. TJ Yeldon is expendable. Derrick Henry is a one dimensional time share RB. Eddie Lacy is flat out bad. The only above average but still nothing spectacular RB Alabama has produced in the last decade is Mark Ingram.

All Alabama RBs are downhill runners that all lack burst and laterall quickness hence why they flame out with fast NFL defenses. Bo Scarborough being the next one.

[brownie man]

38 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

Question how do you guys feel about Damien Harris from Bama. I look at this kid. Former 5 Star RB stuck behind stellar guys every year. Shines immediately. Looking at a 3rd round grade. I think there’s some serious untapped potential and if given a lead roll I think he could be special. And how would you guys feel if we double dipped and took both he and Scarbrough 

Harris is the first prospect I’ve ever liked coming from Alabama 

hes a three down back 

I think he can have a Jordan Howard type career once’s he starts getting 20 carries a game in the league

Bama is just so deep

but Harris is legit 

[Aztec Hammer]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/10-nfl-draft-questions-teams-soured-qbs-josh-rosen-sam-darnold-josh-allen-033419404.html

This article thinks it's a lock for some combination of Darnold, Rosen and Allen as the first three QBs. I agree. But again it has doubts that Darnold will declare: It also says no team is willing to draft Jackson before the fourth round. No way do I believe that. He will rise by draft time, to the first round I think. Jacksonville wouldn't surprise me. Mayfield is rising fast and I think someone will fall in love with him. He doesn't fit the mold of a Belichick QB but I have a feeling about him to the Pats with the Garoppolo pick.

Allen is going to skyrocket at the combine and around that time when he shows off that crazy combination of arm and athleticism.

[MWil23]

Some team will take a shot on Lamar Jackson in the first or second round, barring injury. His athleticism and potential alone won't let him slip past the 2nd round.