Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[catcheryea]

i guess no one really knows what's up with noel's injury but if the only two healthy bigs on the roster are stewart and duren this team could easily go winless until he's back and healthy

[Sllim Pickens]

6 hours ago, catcheryea said:

i guess no one really knows what's up with noel's injury but if the only two healthy bigs on the roster are stewart and duren this team could easily go winless until he's back and healthy

On the plus side, it would give Duren some quality minutes early on.  

[MOSteelers56]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:15 AM, catcheryea said:

i guess no one really knows what's up with noel's injury but if the only two healthy bigs on the roster are stewart and duren this team could easily go winless until he's back and healthy

 

On 10/14/2022 at 4:46 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

On the plus side, it would give Duren some quality minutes early on.  

Going to be a whole lot of fouls committed by our bigs with Duren and Stew playing. I like letting Duren play through it though. I hope he gets comfortable playing defense and doesn't pick up a lot of bad habits. I feel like Casey will be good for Duren's early career. Much better than anyone was for Drummond. 

[MOSteelers56]

The big game is tonight. Should be an interesting one with two good young cores. 

[MOSteelers56]

Definitely excited to see how the Pistons continue to grow. There were some serious positives from the game. I know it was a battle of two of the worst teams in the league, but I think Pistons and Magic fans have to be pretty pumped about what they saw. Cade reminds me of later career Chris Paul. He's just so smart and makes really great passes. If he can ever get his efficiency up, he's going to be a 25/10 guy. Ivey is dynamite, Duren looked like a grown man at 18, Bogy is nails from 3, Stew not being afraid of the big shot, Killian stuffing the stat sheet so much that he has a +3 while shooting 1-9. Saddiq didn't look too good, though. I hope he can figure it out. 

[Sllim Pickens]

5 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Definitely excited to see how the Pistons continue to grow. There were some serious positives from the game. I know it was a battle of two of the worst teams in the league, but I think Pistons and Magic fans have to be pretty pumped about what they saw. Cade reminds me of later career Chris Paul. He's just so smart and makes really great passes. If he can ever get his efficiency up, he's going to be a 25/10 guy. Ivey is dynamite, Duren looked like a grown man at 18, Bogy is nails from 3, Stew not being afraid of the big shot, Killian stuffing the stat sheet so much that he has a +3 while shooting 1-9. Saddiq didn't look too good, though. I hope he can figure it out. 

Saddiq has always been that guy that IMO was the best player on a bad team and once there was talent around, his weaknesses would show up.  He is a streaky shooter and will still have his games he goes off but can't count on him.  Finding an athletic 3 that can push him to the bench will be huge for this team.  

It was nice seeing them recover from a poor start.  Cade was bad in the first and picked up the two fouls quick and instead of being a young team that folds, we fought back and won.  Like you said, it was just Orlando, but the mind set is growth I like to see.  

Duren was a lot more exciting than I expected this early.  Will be fun to watch these guys grow together.

Its too bad Miles Bridges is a D bag because he would fit in perfectly at the 3/4 for this team.   Someone like that would easily put us in the bottom of the playoffs with potential for more as Cade/Ivey/Duren grow.  Still hope to miss for one more year and have a chance at Vic but if Cade takes a step towards super star, I would be ok with that too. 

[MOSteelers56]

10 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Saddiq has always been that guy that IMO was the best player on a bad team and once there was talent around, his weaknesses would show up.  He is a streaky shooter and will still have his games he goes off but can't count on him.  Finding an athletic 3 that can push him to the bench will be huge for this team.  

It was nice seeing them recover from a poor start.  Cade was bad in the first and picked up the two fouls quick and instead of being a young team that folds, we fought back and won.  Like you said, it was just Orlando, but the mind set is growth I like to see.  

Duren was a lot more exciting than I expected this early.  Will be fun to watch these guys grow together.

Its too bad Miles Bridges is a D bag because he would fit in perfectly at the 3/4 for this team.   Someone like that would easily put us in the bottom of the playoffs with potential for more as Cade/Ivey/Duren grow.  Still hope to miss for one more year and have a chance at Vic but if Cade takes a step towards super star, I would be ok with that too. 

It seems like there will be a bunch of athletic wing type dudes in this draft class. I think you're right about Saddiq needing to come off the bench. He can be a microwave scorer off the bench with his streakiness. I agree with you about Duren. I really thought he'd be lost out there, but he looked like he really belonged. His defense changed the game. It's not like Orlando has scrubs in the frontcourt either. 

[catcheryea]

3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Saddiq has always been that guy that IMO was the best player on a bad team and once there was talent around, his weaknesses would show up.  He is a streaky shooter and will still have his games he goes off but can't count on him.  Finding an athletic 3 that can push him to the bench will be huge for this team.  

fourth option saddiq has a nice ring to it

[catcheryea]

the bench minutes have been so horrific that saddiq and cade have the 17th and 22nd best on/off differential in the entire nba. ahead of guys like ingram, booker, and mccollum

[Sllim Pickens]

19 hours ago, catcheryea said:

the bench minutes have been so horrific that saddiq and cade have the 17th and 22nd best on/off differential in the entire nba. ahead of guys like ingram, booker, and mccollum

Let the future of the team grow and play well and let the non-future of our team help us lose to get one more top pick.  Then in the offseason we can replace Diallo, Joseph, and McGruder and help our stars out a bit more.  Also adding in Vic would help, lol.  But in actuality I would like Cade and Ivey to take steps towards being stars and lead us to a late lotto team this year despite the shortcomings of the rest of the roster as the odds for Vic and fit for Scoot (although I would take it) are very unlikely.   

[Sllim Pickens]

I didn't get to watch last night but the box score looks like we didn't play team ball at all (12 total team assists) and the turnovers were a problem again.  Not to mention no defense allowing 51% shooting from the floor.  

Hayes was awful with an 0-6 night, 4 turnovers and no assists.  He did get 2 rebounds lol. He tricked us with his one good game to start the year (even though he was 1-9 in that game). His shooting percentage line through 4 games may be the worst in NBA history at 12%/10%/66%.  He has a -1.9 PER.  He is the third best DBPM on the team at -1.6 and is the second worst overall BPM at -13.2 which means he is a -11.3 OBPM.  That is absolutely pathetic.  I have a feeling he goes the way of Sekou in the offseason.    

Bey with 6 points in 27 minutes shows his streakiness is real.  He only took 5 shots which also leans towards he can't create his own shot in a game in which we weren't passing or moving well.  

I am wondering what the biggest issue is with Cade.  Is he not the primary ball handler much so far?  Is he the primary when on the court and just not creating for others?  They hype is that he was a Luka type player and he is well below in  scoring, shooting, passing, rebounding and even defense at this point.  I know its only four games but hoping to see some growth from him and the early returns have been regression from last year. 

[catcheryea]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I didn't get to watch last night but the box score looks like we didn't play team ball at all (12 total team assists) and the turnovers were a problem again.  Not to mention no defense allowing 51% shooting from the floor.  

honestly the numbers don't even do it justice. it was so bad i started working on a project that isn't due for 3 weeks in the third quarter. just a completely dysfunctional team on both ends of the floor. on one hand, the coaching is piss poor. on the other hand, the personnel is piss poor. and in both hands it's hard see to how anybody improved at anything outside of the stewart's theoretical shooting. the defense is atrocious regardless of who's on the floor, but bey and bogdanovic have to be one of the 3 worst defensive forward pairings in the league (i'm being very generous). the tallest guy in the start lineup is 6'8, and the only athlete in that group is 6'4 so there's no rebounding. they've been eaten alive the last 3 games by other bigs. last night porzingis was 7 inches (SEVEN) taller than the entire pistons starting five

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Hayes was awful with an 0-6 night, 4 turnovers and no assists.  He did get 2 rebounds lol. He tricked us with his one good game to start the year (even though he was 1-9 in that game). His shooting percentage line through 4 games may be the worst in NBA history at 12%/10%/66%.  He has a -1.9 PER.  He is the third best DBPM on the team at -1.6 and is the second worst overall BPM at -13.2 which means he is a -11.3 OBPM.  That is absolutely pathetic.  I have a feeling he goes the way of Sekou in the offseason.    

again, somehow the eye test was even worse than the numbers. they're not even playing to his strengths anymore which is just emphasizing how truly inept he is at scoring. i said to someone last night it's no longer a question of is he the worst offensive player in the nba, but how many years do you have to go back to find someone worse? still the whole bench minus duren, and to some extent livers, is an affront to basketball and isn't doing anyone any favors

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Bey with 6 points in 27 minutes shows his streakiness is real.  He only took 5 shots which also leans towards he can't create his own shot in a game in which we weren't passing or moving well.  

and one of those shots and three of those points game in garbage time down 20 when he was the only starter left on the floor for either team. this is the second time this year he's only taken one shot in the second half. i think maybe it's an issue of too many mouths to feed. cade needs his 15 shots, ivey needs 10, bogdanovic needs his 15, and stewart need to take shots early if there's any hope of the defense taking him semi seriously on a given night. so that's 50 possessions right off the bat that he's not getting shots. last year when grant was out, he was clearly second in the pecking order and now he's probably closer to fifth than third. why haven't the used him as an offball shooter more and run him off screens just to force him some looks? i don't know, but i also haven't understood anything about how casey's offense is run in 5 years

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I am wondering what the biggest issue is with Cade.  Is he not the primary ball handler much so far?  Is he the primary when on the court and just not creating for others?  They hype is that he was a Luka type player and he is well below in  scoring, shooting, passing, rebounding and even defense at this point.  I know its only four games but hoping to see some growth from him and the early returns have been regression from last year. 

cade's been unquestionably bad, but i don't think he's been near the level of like ******* terrible or something like that. his biggest issue is that his shot is completely ****ed. he's shooting line drives and he's coming up short on almost all of his misses from 3 and the midrange which was usually a decent look for him last year. i don't get what happened since last summer league. if he was shooting more efficiently i think a lot of other issues that aren't completely attributable to him wouldn't be blamed on him. i think against the pacers he didn't get his first assist until the 4th quarter because bey and bogey weren't hitting the looks he was creating for them and i truly can't think of a worse pnr partner in the nba for cade that stewart. so many dumpoffs just get wasted on fumbled catches, or blown finishes, or if we're lucky he gets a foul call. stewart somehow pinned a fastbreak dunk/layup between the rim and backboard and unfortunately they don't hand out assists on those

he has been weirdly passive at times and there's a narrative that he's been looking to get other guys their shots in the first half but i don't think those things have to be or should be mutually exclusive. totally agreed he's been wildly disappointing

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, catcheryea said:

honestly the numbers don't even do it justice. it was so bad i started working on a project that isn't due for 3 weeks in the third quarter. just a completely dysfunctional team on both ends of the floor. on one hand, the coaching is piss poor. on the other hand, the personnel is piss poor. and in both hands it's hard see to how anybody improved at anything outside of the stewart's theoretical shooting. the defense is atrocious regardless of who's on the floor, but bey and bogdanovic have to be one of the 3 worst defensive forward pairings in the league (i'm being very generous). the tallest guy in the start lineup is 6'8, and the only athlete in that group is 6'4 so there's no rebounding. they've been eaten alive the last 3 games by other bigs. last night porzingis was 7 inches (SEVEN) taller than the entire pistons starting five

again, somehow the eye test was even worse than the numbers. they're not even playing to his strengths anymore which is just emphasizing how truly inept he is at scoring. i said to someone last night it's no longer a question of is he the worst offensive player in the nba, but how many years do you have to go back to find someone worse? still the whole bench minus duren, and to some extent livers, is an affront to basketball and isn't doing anyone any favors

and one of those shots and three of those points game in garbage time down 20 when he was the only starter left on the floor for either team. this is the second time this year he's only taken one shot in the second half. i think maybe it's an issue of too many mouths to feed. cade needs his 15 shots, ivey needs 10, bogdanovic needs his 15, and stewart need to take shots early if there's any hope of the defense taking him semi seriously on a given night. so that's 50 possessions right off the bat that he's not getting shots. last year when grant was out, he was clearly second in the pecking order and now he's probably closer to fifth than third. why haven't the used him as an offball shooter more and run him off screens just to force him some looks? i don't know, but i also haven't understood anything about how casey's offense is run in 5 years

cade's been unquestionably bad, but i don't think he's been near the level of like ******* terrible or something like that. his biggest issue is that his shot is completely ****ed. he's shooting line drives and he's coming up short on almost all of his misses from 3 and the midrange which was usually a decent look for him last year. i don't get what happened since last summer league. if he was shooting more efficiently i think a lot of other issues that aren't completely attributable to him wouldn't be blamed on him. i think against the pacers he didn't get his first assist until the 4th quarter because bey and bogey weren't hitting the looks he was creating for them and i truly can't think of a worse pnr partner in the nba for cade that stewart. so many dumpoffs just get wasted on fumbled catches, or blown finishes, or if we're lucky he gets a foul call. stewart somehow pinned a fastbreak dunk/layup between the rim and backboard and unfortunately they don't hand out assists on those

he has been weirdly passive at times and there's a narrative that he's been looking to get other guys their shots in the first half but i don't think those things have to be or should be mutually exclusive. totally agreed he's been wildly disappointing

Solid responses.  Thanks for the input.  Cade needs the mindset like Luka.  Create your shot, get yours and then when the D collapses on you, dish it.  But as you said, the shot is worse and his percentages prove it. 

The whole team is pretty broken and I hope this is the end of the Casey era.  He has to develop some talent and play to their strengths and he never seems to do that.  Need to move on before he ruins Cade forever.  

As for the bench, it would help if Bagley and Burks get back.  Thats a pretty solid addition to the bench and or moving someone to the bench and starting one of them. That being said, those guys would make us not laughable at best. 

[catcheryea]

15 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Solid responses.  Thanks for the input.  Cade needs the mindset like Luka.  Create your shot, get yours and then when the D collapses on you, dish it.  But as you said, the shot is worse and his percentages prove it. 

The whole team is pretty broken and I hope this is the end of the Casey era.  He has to develop some talent and play to their strengths and he never seems to do that.  Need to move on before he ruins Cade forever.  

As for the bench, it would help if Bagley and Burks get back.  Thats a pretty solid addition to the bench and or moving someone to the bench and starting one of them. That being said, those guys would make us not laughable at best. 

i shudder to think what the rotation will look like when bagley and/or noel return. the easiest thing to do, at least in my head, would be take stewart out early for bagley or duren and then after a few minutes put the other in at the 5 and stewart at the 4 with hayes/burks/livers. but that doesn't fit casey's m.o. of splitting the starter minutes and bench minutes and any lineup that has two of bagley/duren/noel would be an absolute spacing cluster****

[MOSteelers56]

Definitely need some Cade/Bagley minutes. Cade needs a vertical spacing big really badly. A lot of his drives that end in him getting stuck, swatted, or forced into a tough layup could turn into lob assists pretty easily with just a little vertical spacing. His numbers would immediately look better with some minutes with Bagley.