2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[Forge]

24 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

That's not what I meant- I think Thomas is only a bust because of where he was drafted. He's a solid player inside, and not a bad starter. That's why I think a late 3rd isn't out of the question. The other guys you described were all poor players. Thomas is better than that. He's a bust because he's not a guy you take #3 overall.

I'm not saying because he was #3 overall he's worth more. I'm saying he's a bust because he was #3 overall. If Thomas was picked at say #20, I don't think that there would be a lot of disappointment. 

Meh...I mean, it sort of depends. As an end? Yeah, he's still a bust, even for the 20th pick overall. As a 3 tech? Maybe, maybe not. For me there's not enough of a sample to indicate that one way or the other. He's looked damn impressive in his short stints there, but it's still a limited sample, which always makes me wary. There was a time, two years into his career, that we felt Armstead was a very efficient pass rusher because the numbers actually bore that out. Now 2 years later, we kind of know that's he's not all that great as a pass rusher and he largely is what he is (or at least from what he has shown). Granted, there's a scheme change there, and maybe that impacted him more than it should have as a pass rusher, but it's a possibility. 

But that is why I wouldn't be trading him for pennies on the dollar like we would if we really do trade him. I'd rather take a shot to see if what he has shown in that limited sample is legit. 

[John232]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Meh...I mean, it sort of depends. As an end? Yeah, he's still a bust, even for the 20th pick overall. As a 3 tech? Maybe, maybe not. For me there's not enough of a sample to indicate that one way or the other. He's looked damn impressive in his short stints there, but it's still a limited sample, which always makes me wary. There was a time, two years into his career, that we felt Armstead was a very efficient pass rusher because the numbers actually bore that out. Now 2 years later, we kind of know that's he's not all that great as a pass rusher and he largely is what he is (or at least from what he has shown). Granted, there's a scheme change there, and maybe that impacted him more than it should have as a pass rusher, but it's a possibility. 

But that is why I wouldn't be trading him for pennies on the dollar like we would if we really do trade him. I'd rather take a shot to see if what he has shown in that limited sample is legit. 

I would be much happier using Thomas as a trade up piece to get into the first round again rather than deal him for a straight pick. Feels better using talent to get talent.

that said, I’d much prefer we keep him and finally give him a full time shot inside on passing downs.

[Forge]

Just now, John232 said:

I would be much happier using Thomas as a trade up piece to get into the first round again rather than deal him for a straight pick. Feels better using talent to get talent.

that said, I’d much prefer we keep him and finally give him a full time shot inside on passing downs.

I actually thought about that sort of deal as well. I wouldn't be surprised if New England would be enticed by a deal like that, and I do think that we want to get back into the first to ensure that we get our guy. New England has always loved buying low on uber talented busted first round picks, and I think Thomas would be right up their alley. Plus, we have a great relationship with them. 

[y2lamanaki]

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

But that is why I wouldn't be trading him for pennies on the dollar like we would if we really do trade him. I'd rather take a shot to see if what he has shown in that limited sample is legit. 

Agreed. That is my preference as well. However, if we draft QW, getting pennies on the dollar is the best case scenario. 

Also agree he's a bust as a DE, but you know I felt that way from the beginning. If we do trade him, I'm going back to the article I wrote and liking all of the comments. 

[NinerNation21]

33 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Yes, Lynch's stock is nose diving. He needs to hit this draft. Particularly the the first two picks. 

 

36 minutes ago, Forge said:

I was listening to Danny Kelly and Ryan Clark on Dual Threat the other day, and they were asked which GMs do they trust least during the draft. One was Mike Maccagnan, because obviously. But they did mention John Lynch as another that they didn't trust heading into this draft. That's a bad sign after two years lol

Maybe I'm biased toward the Niners, but I don't completely understand the hate for Lynch. Looking back on his first two drafts, I actually thought they were pretty good.

 

2017 - I LOVED this draft class and thought we got great value at several picks and found major contributors throughout the draft.

1. Thomas - Was considered one of the best pass rushers and run defenders in the class. Consensus top-5 pick. Misuse from the inept defensive coaching staff is stunting his career

1. Foster - We all knew it was a gamble. On draft day, it was considered one of the best moves in the first round. Foster did Foster things, not Lynch's fault.

3. Witherspoon - Outstand ability, great rookie year, terrible 2nd year. He's still young and unrefined but still has the ability to be a #1 corner. Great value in round 3.

3. Beathard - Shanny guy. Lynch was throwing his coach a bone, albeit too early. 

4. Williams - Shanny double dipped, struck out again. Bad pick.

5. Kittle - HoF-type pick. Amazing value here.

5. Taylor - Excellent value at the pick. When healthy, he's one of the most dependable targets on the field. 

6. Jones - Now the starting NT. Excellent value.

6. Taumoepenu - Took a flyer on athletic ability, didn't pan out. No harm, no foul.

7. Colbert - Was looking like the steal of the draft, then played poorly and got hurt in year 2. See Witherspoon.

2017 UDFAs of Note

• Mullens - Reliable #2 or trade bait, either way, amazing pick up.
• Breida - We could've drafted him in round 4 rather than Williams and it would still be great value. UDFA? Elite value.
• Bourne - Nice rounding-out-the-roster guy who could've been drafted in round 6 and I would've liked the pick.
• Magnuson - He's not great, but he's good enough to keep sticking on the roster after 2 years. More than most UDFAs can do.

 

2018 - Too early to grade this draft, but so far, I think it's looking like a promising class. Also, we got Garoppolo with our second from this class. AMAZING trade - good job Lynch.

1. McGlinchey - Rock-solid RT from day one. Was an iffy pick draft day, but is now, IMO, one of our best recent picks.

2. Pettis - Lots of arguments about this pick, but he's proven he was worth the pick and provided immediate value

3. Warner - Amazing value. The perfect LB for our scheme and played well despite being through into the fire on day 1.

3. Moore - TBD, looked ok in playing time, but was drafted a little early because of elite athletic traits.

4. Street - TBD, this pick left a bad taste in most Niner fan's mouths because of Baalke. But, he was also considered an elite athlete, so we have to wait and see before we judge it.

5. Reed - Excellent value. He will be our starting nickel who can play FS and return kicks. Very versatile and athletic, amazing upside.

6. Harris - Looked ok in playing time. If he doesn't work, it was only a 6th.

7. Taylor - Looked amazing in pre-season. Very excited to see him progress and play more. Loved the pick.

7. James - James was up and down in the regular season. But got people very excited when drafted, including me. Big upside.

2018 UDFAs of Note

• Wilson - Stuck around and got his shot. Looked alright except for the fumbling. Decent depth on PS.
• Dwelley - Good PS depth and could compete for roster spot. 

[GW21]

34 minutes ago, Forge said:

I actually thought about that sort of deal as well. I wouldn't be surprised if New England would be enticed by a deal like that, and I do think that we want to get back into the first to ensure that we get our guy. New England has always loved buying low on uber talented busted first round picks, and I think Thomas would be right up their alley. Plus, we have a great relationship with them. 

This was my thought exactly. This seems like a very NE type move. I don’t think the book is closed on Thomas, but I could see us moving on after we take either DL tonight as he would have a hard time getting substantial playing time.

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

 

Maybe I'm biased toward the Niners, but I don't completely understand the hate for Lynch. Looking back on his first two drafts, I actually thought they were pretty good.

 

2017 - I LOVED this draft class and thought we got great value at several picks and found major contributors throughout the draft.

1. Thomas - Was considered one of the best pass rushers and run defenders in the class. Consensus top-5 pick. Misuse from the inept defensive coaching staff is stunting his career

1. Foster - We all knew it was a gamble. On draft day, it was considered one of the best moves in the first round. Foster did Foster things, not Lynch's fault.

3. Witherspoon - Outstand ability, great rookie year, terrible 2nd year. He's still young and unrefined but still has the ability to be a #1 corner. Great value in round 3.

3. Beathard - Shanny guy. Lynch was throwing his coach a bone, albeit too early. 

4. Williams - Shanny double dipped, struck out again. Bad pick.

5. Kittle - HoF-type pick. Amazing value here.

5. Taylor - Excellent value at the pick. When healthy, he's one of the most dependable targets on the field. 

6. Jones - Now the starting NT. Excellent value.

6. Taumoepenu - Took a flyer on athletic ability, didn't pan out. No harm, no foul.

7. Colbert - Was looking like the steal of the draft, then played poorly and got hurt in year 2. See Witherspoon.

2017 UDFAs of Note

• Mullens - Reliable #2 or trade bait, either way, amazing pick up.
• Breida - We could've drafted him in round 4 rather than Williams and it would still be great value. UDFA? Elite value.
• Bourne - Nice rounding-out-the-roster guy who could've been drafted in round 6 and I would've liked the pick.
• Magnuson - He's not great, but he's good enough to keep sticking on the roster after 2 years. More than most UDFAs can do.

 

2018 - Too early to grade this draft, but so far, I think it's looking like a promising class. Also, we got Garoppolo with our second from this class. AMAZING trade - good job Lynch.

1. McGlinchey - Rock-solid RT from day one. Was an iffy pick draft day, but is now, IMO, one of our best recent picks.

2. Pettis - Lots of arguments about this pick, but he's proven he was worth the pick and provided immediate value

3. Warner - Amazing value. The perfect LB for our scheme and played well despite being through into the fire on day 1.

3. Moore - TBD, looked ok in playing time, but was drafted a little early because of elite athletic traits.

4. Street - TBD, this pick left a bad taste in most Niner fan's mouths because of Baalke. But, he was also considered an elite athlete, so we have to wait and see before we judge it.

5. Reed - Excellent value. He will be our starting nickel who can play FS and return kicks. Very versatile and athletic, amazing upside.

6. Harris - Looked ok in playing time. If he doesn't work, it was only a 6th.

7. Taylor - Looked amazing in pre-season. Very excited to see him progress and play more. Loved the pick.

7. James - James was up and down in the regular season. But got people very excited when drafted, including me. Big upside.

2018 UDFAs of Note

• Wilson - Stuck around and got his shot. Looked alright except for the fumbling. Decent depth on PS.
• Dwelley - Good PS depth and could compete for roster spot. 

I could make a tl;dr post about this. But to basically summarize - a lot of what you're saying here is debatable and subjective. That will be in the eye of the beholder. 

But the main crux of it is basically - huge whiffs on 2/3 first rounders thus far. That's bad. Results, when not given context, have been bad, and some people don't account for that (or won't). Most people have seriously hated on the contracts we have given out on FA (and no, I'm not just talking about myself lol), though some are starting to realize the brilliance of Paraag (notable on the ringer NFL podcast). I can see why people would question Lynch at this stage, but I think it's unfair as last season was completely torpedoed because of the injury to Jimmy G basically ruining the season. Year 1 was basically a hard reset on the roster and there was almost no real talent. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

[NinerNation21]

 

 

1

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

I could make a tl;dr post about this. But to basically summarize - a lot of what you're saying here is debatable and subjective. That will be in the eye of the beholder. 

But the main crux of it is basically - huge whiffs on 2/3 first rounders thus far. That's bad. Results, when not given context, have been bad, and some people don't account for that (or won't). Most people have seriously hated on the contracts we have given out on FA (and no, I'm not just talking about myself lol), though some are starting to realize the brilliance of Paraag (notable on the ringer NFL podcast). I can see why people would question Lynch at this stage, but I think it's unfair as last season was completely torpedoed because of the injury to Jimmy G basically ruining the season. Year 1 was basically a hard reset on the roster and there was almost no real talent. 

Foster was certainly a whiff, but we all knew that was a gamble and probably wasn't going to end well. Surprise, it didn't end well. People lauded Lynch for trading up and getting Foster on draft day, though. It blew up in Lynch's face and I give him a lot of credit for sticking to his word and releasing Foster. 

Thomas has been a whiff so far. But we still haven't seen him play his most natural position, so it's lazy to me to write him off as a bust right now (not saying you are, but many people are doing so).

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

If they haven't made a decision yet, they should all just be fired now so AZ can just get the fresh start going now. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

If they haven't made a decision yet, they should all just be fired now so AZ can just get the fresh start going now. 

Decision has been made for months, let alone a few hours before the draft lol. 

[JIllg]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

If they haven't made a decision yet, they should all just be fired now so AZ can just get the fresh start going now. 

But there's so much new information to process!

[Forge]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

Decision has been made for months, let alone a few hours before the draft lol. 

I know, that's what I'm saying. The fact that the media continue to spew this nonsense that a pick hasn't been made is ridiculous troll like behavior to get interest. There's no way that this pick hasn't been decided on for quite some time now...but if it's not, they really should be fired lol. The media suggesting that it's still up in the air just reflects poorly on the FO in my opinion lol

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

I know, that's what I'm saying. The fact that the media continue to spew this nonsense that a pick hasn't been made is ridiculous troll like behavior to get interest. There's no way that this pick hasn't been decided on for quite some time now...but if it's not, they really should be fired lol. The media suggesting that it's still up in the air just reflects poorly on the FO in my opinion lol

Only way it hasn't been made is if for all this time they have been trying to find a trade partner. But if they keep the pick? They have known for a while who they are going to take. 

The draft starts at pick #3 for me. 

[Forge]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

Only way it hasn't been made is if for all this time they have been trying to find a trade partner. But if they keep the pick? They have known for a while who they are going to take. 

The draft starts at pick #3 for me. 

Agreed wholeheartedly. That's exactly what I said in the draft forum. They'll keep trade options open, but they know who they are picking if they stay there, no doubt about that.