TCMD - Forum Wide GM Mock Draft Discussion

[D82]

I'm good with that. 

[mountainpd]

I apologise as I can’t fully remember the formula but one problem was year six before didn’t have the same year on year restrictions.

the other issues were roster bonus which could be back loaded as they never really hit the cap.

I don’t think it was that broke to be honest and certainly didn’t effect my fun doing the mock. I actually just deemed the GM to have made a bad move and voted accordingly.

I think the signing bonus and yearly wage rise was good. Maximum of 5 year contracts and other bonuses must be in year one or two so impacts this and next years cap. 

I like the next year cap calculator(it will be impossible to do year three cap too)as it does control things and also helps me have an opinion of good and bad GM decisions.

Please remember a couple of things were changed after the first or second wave of free agency which fixed the problem last year. 

[squire12]

@MKnight82 Is there a particular issue this rule is trying to solve?  I guess I am not sure why another rule is needed?

[EaglesPeteC]

3 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

So I was curious what the top paid players on each team were and whether they were FAs or not, it looks like this:

 

Cardinals			Falcons			Ravens			Bills
Larry Fitzgerald	$16,850,000		Matt Ryan	$17,700,000		Joe Flacco	$24,750,000		Jerry Hughes	$10,400,000
Chandler Jones	$15,500,000		Desmond Trufant	$12,900,000		Jimmy Smith	$13,233,040		Charles Clay	$9,000,000
Patrick Peterson	$14,956,965		Julio Jones	$12,866,667		Marshal Yanda	$10,125,220		Lesean McCoy	$8,950,000
Panthers			Bears			Bengals			Browns
Cam Newton	$21,500,000		Khalil Mack	$13,800,000		Geno Atkins	$15,100,000		Tyrod Taylor	$16,000,000
Kawann Short	$17,000,000		Allen Robinson	$11,812,500		Carlos Dunlap	$13,050,000		Jarvis Landry	$15,500,000
Ryan Kalil	$12,529,000		Akiem Hicks	$9,600,000		Cordy Glenn	$11,250,000		Jamie Collins	$12,400,000
Cowboys			Broncos			Lions			Packers
Tyron Smith	$17,545,000		Case Keenum	$15,000,000		Matthew Stafford	$26,500,000		Aaron Rodgers	$20,900,000
DeMarcus Lawrence	$17,143,000		Derek Wolfe	$10,925,000		Glover Quinn	$6,516,666		Randall Cobb	$12,531,250
Sean Lee	$11,025,000		Von Miller	$10,125,000		Darius Slay	$6,110,644		Clay Matthews	$11,400,000
Texans			Colts			Jaguars			Chiefs
JJ Watt	$15,000,000		Andrew Luck	$24,400,000		Calais Campbell	$17,500,000		Justin Houston	$20,600,000
DeAndre Hopkins	$14,000,000		TY Hilton	$13,000,000		Malik Jackson	$15,500,000		Eric Fisher	$13,950,000
Jadeveon Clowney	$13,311,000		Anthony Castonzo	$10,800,000		AJ Bouye	$15,406,250		Eric Berry	$13,000,000
Chargers			Rams			Dolphins			Vikings
Phillip Rivers	$22,000,000		Ndamukong Suh	$14,500,000		Robert Quinn	$11,444,412		Kirk Cousins	$24,000,000
Russell Okung	$14,968,750		Lamarcus Joyner	$11,287,000		Andre Branch	$14,000,000		Xavier Rhodes	$13,337,500
Melvin Ingram	$13,875,000		Aqib Talib	$11,000,000		Kenny Stills	$9,750,000		Anthony Barr	$12,306,000
Patriots			Saints			Giants			Jets
Tom Brady	$22,000,000		Drew Brees	$24,000,000		Eli Manning	$22,200,000		Trumaine Johnson	$10,000,000
Devin McCourty	$11,935,000		Cameron Jordan	$14,497,000		Oliver Vernon	$17,000,000		Josh McCown	$10,000,000
Rob Gronkowski	$10,859,375		Terron Armstead	$10,050,000		Janoris Jenkins	$10,000,000		Kelvin Beachum	$9,500,000
Raiders			Eagles			Steelers			49ers
Derek Carr	$25,000,000		Nick Foles	$13,600,000		Ben Roethlisberger	$23,200,000		Joe Staley	$10,950,000
Kelechi Osemele	$10,500,000		Fletcher Cox	$11,348,000		Joe Haden	$11,916,666		Garry Gilliam	$10,800,000
Jordy Nelson	$9,168,750		Jason Peters	$10,666,666		Maurkice Pouncey	$10,551,000		Weston Richburg	$9,535,000
Seahawks			Buccaneers			Titans			Redskins
Russell Wilson	$23,786,666		Mike Evans	$18,258,000		Taylor Lewan	$10,700,000		Josh Norman	$16,800,000
Bobby Wagner	$13,600,000		Gerald McCoy	$12,750,000		Brian Orakpo	$9,000,000		Trent Williams	$13,579,005
Doug Baldwin	$11,800,000		Jason Pierre-Paul	$12,500,000		Derrick Morgan	$8,406,250		Ryan Kerrigan	$12,450,000

 

*Yellow denotes they were signed as FAs.

**Players that were traded for then extended weren't counted.

***Hicks and Gilliam were signed as FAs, but they've since signed another extension which has made them more expensive than they were when they signed as FAs.

 

So you can see its fairly common for teams to have a FA signing within the top 3 of its cap for 2018.  It is however fairly rare for a team to have the top player on their cap as a signed FA.  Only 7 teams in the NFL had this occur, and Nick Foles is kind of a special case considering he can back to the team that drafted him.  

Of those 7, the most egregious is the Kirk Cousins contract, which is probably a historical anomaly, but starting QBs of that level rarely hit FA (I'm not here to debate whether Cousins is a good QB or not, but its obvious the perception during FA last year is that he was).  So let's just throw out that contract because its a once in a lifetime occurrence.  That leaves us with these comps:

 

Broncos		%
Case Keenum	$15,000,000
Derek Wolfe	$10,925,000	37.30%
Von Miller	$10,125,000
Jaguars
Calais Campbell	$17,500,000
Malik Jackson	$15,500,000	12.90%
AJ Bouye	$15,406,250
Rams
Ndamukong Suh	$14,500,000
Lamarcus Joyner	$11,287,000	28.47%
Aqib Talib	$11,000,000
Trumaine Johnson	$10,000,000
Josh McCown	$10,000,000	0.00%
Kelvin Beachum	$9,500,000
Eagles
Nick Foles	$13,600,000
Fletcher Cox	$11,348,000	19.84%
Jason Peters	$10,666,666
Redskins
Josh Norman	$16,800,000
Trent Williams	$13,579,005	23.72%
Ryan Kerrigan	$12,450,000

 

Case Keenum's contract is the strongest of the bunch in terms of being so much higher than every other contract on payroll by that team.  His contract was 37.3% higher than the 2nd highest cap on the Broncos payroll this season.  

 

NEW RULE: So I propose this, make a rule that you cannot sign a player that is paid more than 40% more than the 2nd highest paid player on your roster.  

 

That will cap team's bidding, and it also won't give you the same ceiling for every team (causing problems with ties).  

 

Now I can already see the complaints with this rule, what about teams that have a $20+ mil QB vs teams with a $10 safety as their top paid player!  

 

To enact this rule we're going to need a second rule.  The team with its top 3 players taking up the most % of cap this season was the Carolina Panthers.  They had 28.1% of their cap tied up in their 3 players.  

 

NEW RULE 2: Your top 3 paid players cannot be more than 30% of the cap for next year.  

 

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this idea.  

I’m for this as a concept. Depends on how Mike feels he can execute it in the docs. 

 

You can make it simpler by saying you can’t offer any player an APY over x% (10% as a random number I pulled out of my butt) above top paid at the position in the NFL? 

[EaglesPeteC]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

@MKnight82 Is there a particular issue this rule is trying to solve?  I guess I am not sure why another rule is needed?

Trying to elliminate contracts like that Nate Solder $210 million dollar contract from last year haha 

[MKnight82]

16 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

I’m for this as a concept. Depends on how Mike feels he can execute it in the docs. 

 

You can make it simpler by saying you can’t offer any player an APY over x% (10% as a random number I pulled out of my butt) above top paid at the position in the NFL? 

And Idk they may need tweaks.  It’s just a starting point, those don’t have to be the final parameters.

the problem with your suggestion is that everyone will then offer the same contract 

[EaglesPeteC]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

And Idk they may need tweaks.  It’s just a starting point, those don’t have to be the final parameters.

To me it could get messy with making it percentage of team’s cap. I think it would be cleaner to do percentage over the highest at the position. Biggest issue with that is it almost creates a max contract value which could lead to more ties with the co tracts. We’d have to agree on a consistant tie breaker. 

[ny92mike]

I do like the concept but I think it needs more work.

Concerns I see is teams with massive amounts of available cap are limited to making contracts far less than a team with a negative cap.

I took the time to crunch some numbers, 

Team Available Cap	Team	2nd Highest Salary	2nd Highest Player Name	40% Max Bid Amount
$64,014,529	ARI	$11,884,588	1078 - Patrick Peterson - CB	$16,638,423
$23,716,812	ATL	$13,900,000	0435 - Desmond Trufant - CB	$19,460,000
$31,755,292	BAL	$15,850,685	0685 - Jimmy Smith - CB	$22,190,959
$87,281,670	BUF	$10,400,000	0678 - Jerry Hughes - 43DE	$14,560,000
$25,459,965	CAR	$17,200,059	0900 - Luke Kuechly - ILB	$24,080,083
$19,742,452	CHI	$15,000,000	0048 - Allen Robinson - WR	$21,000,000
$52,019,991	CIN	$15,176,000	0002 - A.J. Green - WR	$21,246,400
$84,237,741	CLE	$12,400,000	0842 - Kevin Zeitler - RG	$17,360,000
$54,686,337	DAL	$14,000,000	1420 - Zack Martin - RG	$19,600,000
$45,592,666	DEN	$21,000,000	0217 - Case Keenum - QB	$29,400,000
$36,316,167	DET	$15,934,375	0357 - Darius Slay - CB	$22,308,125
$41,812,731	GB	$14,437,500	1049 - Nick Perry - 34OLB	$20,212,500
$67,097,417	HOU	$14,000,000	0387 - DeAndre Hopkins - WR	$19,600,000
$116,836,980	IND	$15,000,000	1344 - TY Hilton - WR	$21,000,000
-$3,365,153	JAC	$16,000,000	0062 - Andrew Norwell - LG	$22,400,000
$37,148,439	KC	$19,200,000	1191 - Sammy Watkins - WR	$26,880,000
$36,483,828	LA	$15,909,168	0065 - Andrew Whitworth - LT	$22,272,835
$25,915,567	LAC	$18,625,000	0975 - Melvin Ingram - 43DE	$26,075,000
$17,762,817	MIA	$17,160,000	1119 - Reshad Jones - S	$24,024,000
$10,985,401	MIN	$13,500,000	0342 - Danielle Hunter - 43DE	$18,900,000
$22,971,924	NE	$14,837,500	1233 - Stephon Gilmore - CB	$20,772,500
$17,152,015	NO	$16,000,000	1288 - Terron Armstead - LT	$22,400,000
$31,662,094	NYG	$21,000,000	1064 - Odell Beckham, Jr. - WR	$29,400,000
$99,387,909	NYJ	$12,000,000	1343 - Trumaine Johnson - CB	$16,800,000
$76,679,069	OAK	$10,200,000	0812 - Kelechi Osemele - LG	$14,280,000
-$12,170,726	PHI	$15,292,206	0870 - Lane Johnson - RT	$21,409,088
$27,720,468	PIT	$22,165,000	0083 - Antonio Brown - WR	$31,031,000
$60,455,232	SEA	$14,100,000	0132 - Bobby Wagner - ILB	$19,740,000
$62,029,329	SF	$10,950,000	0696 - Joe Staley - LT	$15,330,000
$16,603,360	TB	$20,000,000	0995 - Mike Evans - WR	$28,000,000
$43,497,313	TEN	$16,700,000	1270 - Taylor Lewan - LT	$23,380,000
$21,560,242	WAS	$14,775,883	1325 - Trent Williams - LT	$20,686,236

 

Some of these values aren't high enough to sign a qb in the first round of bidding Where values of the top tier exceed 30 million.

 

Projected APY values for 2019 by position.

Pos.	Top Projected APY by Position
34DE	$17,108,000
34DT	$7,550,000
34OLB	$25,125,000
43DE	$19,500,000
43DT	$17,000,000
43OLB	$12,810,000
C	$11,050,000
CB	$15,934,375
FB	$5,950,000
ILB	$17,200,059
K	$5,145,589
LG	$16,000,000
LS	$1,418,000
LT	$17,000,000
P	$4,250,000
QB	$33,500,000
RB	$9,750,000
RG	$14,000,000
RT	$15,292,206
S	$17,160,000
TE	$12,666,666
WR	$22,165,000

[squire12]

I feel like this is creating a restriction that is uneven between teams with different cap situations.

I was also under the impression that the situation with the Nate Solder contract had a process already in place to prevent/limit that from occurring this year.

[EaglesPeteC]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

I feel like this is creating a restriction that is uneven between teams with different cap situations.

I was also under the impression that the situation with the Nate Solder contract had a process already in place to prevent/limit that from occurring this year.

Sort of. The fix was to make the year 2 value the APY of the entire contract which prevents ridiculous backloading. It doesn’t prevent a team from just offering a stupidly high, completely unrealistic contract.

im personally ok with letting teams do that i guess, but offering up a potential rule to keep things as realistic as possible 

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, squire12 said:

I feel like this is creating a restriction that is uneven between teams with different cap situations.

I was also under the impression that the situation with the Nate Solder contract had a process already in place to prevent/limit that from occurring this year.

To your first point, it has to be team specific or you’ll get the same bid from every team.  He asked for a solution to cap ridiculous contracts that wouldn’t put the same ceiling for all teams, hence generating a bunch of ties in the bidding.

Im not aware of any other solution that has been presented.

[MKnight82]

Also I’m not banging the table insist we do this, I’m just throwing it out there as a possibility.

[ny92mike]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

I feel like this is creating a restriction that is uneven between teams with different cap situations.

I was also under the impression that the situation with the Nate Solder contract had a process already in place to prevent/limit that from occurring this year.

Right.

The Nate Solder and the other player was because of a loophole in the way the owner could structure the contract.  We fixed it the best we could at that moment, and this year I've removed the use of including roster and wo bonuses in the bidding.

[MKnight82]

15 minutes ago, ny92mike said:

I do like the concept but I think it needs more work.

Concerns I see is teams with massive amounts of available cap are limited to making contracts far less than a team with a negative cap.

I took the time to crunch some numbers, 

 

Team Available Cap	Team	2nd Highest Salary	2nd Highest Player Name	40% Max Bid Amount
$64,014,529	ARI	$11,884,588	1078 - Patrick Peterson - CB	$16,638,423
$23,716,812	ATL	$13,900,000	0435 - Desmond Trufant - CB	$19,460,000
$31,755,292	BAL	$15,850,685	0685 - Jimmy Smith - CB	$22,190,959
$87,281,670	BUF	$10,400,000	0678 - Jerry Hughes - 43DE	$14,560,000
$25,459,965	CAR	$17,200,059	0900 - Luke Kuechly - ILB	$24,080,083
$19,742,452	CHI	$15,000,000	0048 - Allen Robinson - WR	$21,000,000
$52,019,991	CIN	$15,176,000	0002 - A.J. Green - WR	$21,246,400
$84,237,741	CLE	$12,400,000	0842 - Kevin Zeitler - RG	$17,360,000
$54,686,337	DAL	$14,000,000	1420 - Zack Martin - RG	$19,600,000
$45,592,666	DEN	$21,000,000	0217 - Case Keenum - QB	$29,400,000
$36,316,167	DET	$15,934,375	0357 - Darius Slay - CB	$22,308,125
$41,812,731	GB	$14,437,500	1049 - Nick Perry - 34OLB	$20,212,500
$67,097,417	HOU	$14,000,000	0387 - DeAndre Hopkins - WR	$19,600,000
$116,836,980	IND	$15,000,000	1344 - TY Hilton - WR	$21,000,000
-$3,365,153	JAC	$16,000,000	0062 - Andrew Norwell - LG	$22,400,000
$37,148,439	KC	$19,200,000	1191 - Sammy Watkins - WR	$26,880,000
$36,483,828	LA	$15,909,168	0065 - Andrew Whitworth - LT	$22,272,835
$25,915,567	LAC	$18,625,000	0975 - Melvin Ingram - 43DE	$26,075,000
$17,762,817	MIA	$17,160,000	1119 - Reshad Jones - S	$24,024,000
$10,985,401	MIN	$13,500,000	0342 - Danielle Hunter - 43DE	$18,900,000
$22,971,924	NE	$14,837,500	1233 - Stephon Gilmore - CB	$20,772,500
$17,152,015	NO	$16,000,000	1288 - Terron Armstead - LT	$22,400,000
$31,662,094	NYG	$21,000,000	1064 - Odell Beckham, Jr. - WR	$29,400,000
$99,387,909	NYJ	$12,000,000	1343 - Trumaine Johnson - CB	$16,800,000
$76,679,069	OAK	$10,200,000	0812 - Kelechi Osemele - LG	$14,280,000
-$12,170,726	PHI	$15,292,206	0870 - Lane Johnson - RT	$21,409,088
$27,720,468	PIT	$22,165,000	0083 - Antonio Brown - WR	$31,031,000
$60,455,232	SEA	$14,100,000	0132 - Bobby Wagner - ILB	$19,740,000
$62,029,329	SF	$10,950,000	0696 - Joe Staley - LT	$15,330,000
$16,603,360	TB	$20,000,000	0995 - Mike Evans - WR	$28,000,000
$43,497,313	TEN	$16,700,000	1270 - Taylor Lewan - LT	$23,380,000
$21,560,242	WAS	$14,775,883	1325 - Trent Williams - LT	$20,686,236

 

Some of these values aren't high enough to sign a qb in the first round of bidding Where values of the top tier exceed 30 million.

 

Projected APY values for 2019 by position.

 

Pos.	Top Projected APY by Position
34DE	$17,108,000
34DT	$7,550,000
34OLB	$25,125,000
43DE	$19,500,000
43DT	$17,000,000
43OLB	$12,810,000
C	$11,050,000
CB	$15,934,375
FB	$5,950,000
ILB	$17,200,059
K	$5,145,589
LG	$16,000,000
LS	$1,418,000
LT	$17,000,000
P	$4,250,000
QB	$33,500,000
RB	$9,750,000
RG	$14,000,000
RT	$15,292,206
S	$17,160,000
TE	$12,666,666
WR	$22,165,000

You’re comparing APYs to first year cap hits, it’s not an apples to apples comparison.

[ny92mike]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

You’re comparing APYs to first year cap hits, it’s not an apples to apples comparison.

True.  The typo was my fault.  The numbers are right though.  They are looking at the cap hit for the 2019 year, not the actual APY.

Pos.	2019 Top Salary by position.
34DE	$17,108,000
34DT	$7,550,000
34OLB	$25,125,000
43DE	$19,500,000
43DT	$17,000,000
43OLB	$12,810,000
C	$11,050,000
CB	$15,934,375
FB	$5,950,000
ILB	$17,200,059
K	$5,145,589
LG	$16,000,000
LS	$1,418,000
LT	$17,000,000
P	$4,250,000
QB	$33,500,000
RB	$9,750,000
RG	$14,000,000
RT	$15,292,206
S	$17,160,000
TE	$12,666,666
WR	$22,165,000