Update: Urban Meyer suspended 3 games

[BobbyPhil1781]

8 minutes ago, Raves said:

But once again, what violations did this culture did it contribute to based on the current status of the situation? 

If there are no violations how can you investigate the culture allowed it to happen.  Now if there were other situations where Ohio State knew of allegations with the football team and then didnt act on them, then you would have something.  If you want to discuss the other issues going on, then thats on Gene Smith not Urban Meyer as it is based on various sports not just football.

So I think this puts Smith at more risk of being fired than Meyer now.

After today's findings, this is where I'm at also. I think Smith is done bc to me, it sounds like Urban did everything right except the media thing which isn't anything.

[IDOG_det]

2 minutes ago, Raves said:

But once again, what violations did this culture did it contribute to based on the current status of the situation? 

If there are no violations how can you investigate the culture allowed it to happen.  Now if there were other situations where Ohio State knew of allegations with the football team and then didnt act on them, then you would have something.  If you want to discuss the other issues going on, then thats on Gene Smith not Urban Meyer as it is based on various sports not just football.

So I think this puts Smith at more risk of being fired than Meyer now.

They had to have gone wrong somewhere. Zach Smith probably should have been fired in 2015 but was only finally fired three years later. Urban Meyer apparently reported it. Did he report it directly to the Compliance Office? Did the Compliance Office find that nothing was wrong and keep Gene Smith in the dark on the issue? Did they find something was wrong and then, with Gene Smith, Michael Drake, and other administrators, collectively decide to not pursue any punishment and withhold sending a report to the NCAA?

I actually agree that it would be difficult to get it to that point, but I just don't understand how they could have not broken one rule while allowing Zach Smith to remain employed and be on campus for three years with full knowledge of these accusations.

[Raves]

4 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

They had to have gone wrong somewhere. Zach Smith probably should have been fired in 2015 but was only finally fired three years later. Urban Meyer apparently reported it. Did he report it directly to the Compliance Office? Did the Compliance Office find that nothing was wrong and keep Gene Smith in the dark on the issue? Did they find something was wrong and then, with Gene Smith, Michael Drake, and other administrators, collectively decide to not pursue any punishment and withhold sending a report to the NCAA?

I actually agree that it would be difficult to get it to that point, but I just don't understand how they could have not broken one rule while allowing Zach Smith to remain employed and be on campus for three years with full knowledge of these accusations.

I think it comes down to the fact that if title IX isnt an issue, then there are no rules against having someone accused of DV as part of the staff that i know of.  Maybe there should be, but the only rule that seems to matter right now seems to be in regards to Title IX.

[tfalkgopack]

2 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

That's the most important part of this. Urban and OSU released a joint statement Wednesday. Now Urban releases one on his own.

What changed?

My assumption is that he’s on paid leave, can’t technically be a part of the school/football team, so he can’t release a statement through the school. 

[buno67]

2 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

I have to assume that Ohio State keeps paper and electronic records of every report until any possible legal or NCAA statute of limitations expires. They would be idiots not to have those records. Gene Smith and Michael Drake may not want that to come out though, would likely shift the blame in the public eye onto them.

they might have the records but they might not be easily accessible because of what they contain. If they are smart they do that so nothing can be tampered with.  

[Duluther]

This whole thing makes me incredibly sick. What Smith’s done is terrible. ESPN giving him a 30minute interview on live TV is terrible. Him having the audacity to say he’s never hurt her and that she’s lying is terrible. Urban slandering McMurphy at the  BTN media days is terrible. Urban lying about knowing about it, and then blaming the lie on “not being prepared for the question (ie blaming the reporters)” is terrible.

 

This whole ordeal makes me incredibly sad. I’m just some guy, but still... I want Smith to get the full justice system. Wherever the buck truly stopped in 2015 (whether it be Urban or GS), I want them fired. 

 

Also, Brett McMurphy has been awesome during all of this. ZS saying he never hurt her, and McMurphy revealing the text of ZS explicitly saying he hurt her... that was a great moment in journalism.

[fretgod99]

12 hours ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Hearsay is when you do not have direct contact with the source. If his wife talked to Courtney then Mrs Meyers talked to Urban, that is hearsay. 

Also something I read about DV and HC's not being fired, here is something from Colorado not too long ago:

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/08/what_happened_to_colorado_foot.html 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

That’s not really what hearsay is, but colloquially it’s close enough I suppose. But what you were really driving at is whether the information can be trusted. That’s what hearsay is geared at, too. But just because something is “hearsay” doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t trustworthy. Pretty much everything that has ever been written down anywhere, ever, is hearsay. Some of it can be trusted, some of it can’t. That you haven’t had direct contact with a source does not mean the information is not credible or trustworthy.

[fretgod99]

Also, did one of those message board posts really say she’s not trustworthy because she was financially dependent on her husband (or ex)? That’s ... pretty astounding in its ignorance, honestly.

[NateDawg]

Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see a case for Meyer being fired with a cause if he told the AD about Smith’s incidents. So, if they think the juice isn’t worth the squeeze because of the pitchforks and torches, get ready to pay out the eventual sum of $40 million for Meyer to not coach the team. 

More likely, unless Meyer is interested in quite the settlement, OSU administration gets behind him the best they can and keep the guy. 

Again, I could be wrong. Lying to the media is his most serious conviction in this so far. 

[Leader]

From The Columbus Dispatch and sums up my thoughts entirely.

"If the investigation shows that Meyer knew about the abuse allegations and I were Ohio State president Michael Drake, I’d clean house. I’d work my way through the Woody Hayes Athletic Center, where I’d give Urban Meyer a cardboard box and a security escort. And I’d keep going, looking also at the athletic director and his 30-plus executive associates, senior associates, associates and assistant athletic directors to determine what they knew and when they knew it"

Its a simple equation: if he knew it and buried it - he deserves to be canned. Period.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180802/michael-arace--defend-urban-meyer-if-you-like-but-if-he-knew-about-abuse-he-should-be-fired

[Raves]

1 hour ago, Leader said:

From The Columbus Dispatch and sums up my thoughts entirely.

"If the investigation shows that Meyer knew about the abuse allegations and I were Ohio State president Michael Drake, I’d clean house. I’d work my way through the Woody Hayes Athletic Center, where I’d give Urban Meyer a cardboard box and a security escort. And I’d keep going, looking also at the athletic director and his 30-plus executive associates, senior associates, associates and assistant athletic directors to determine what they knew and when they knew it"

Its a simple equation: if he knew it and buried it - he deserves to be canned. Period.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180802/michael-arace--defend-urban-meyer-if-you-like-but-if-he-knew-about-abuse-he-should-be-fired

Well based on the release from Meyer he knew, reported it, and with the police department not investigating/pressing charges, didnt fire Zach Smith nor did anyone above him say he has to go.

I doubt he would be lying in the release because that just seals his fate and wouldve been easily enough verified/disproven.

[BigD88]

Are people forgetting or just ignoring the fact that Urban also stated that he knew about Smith’s incident in 2009, and advised the Smiths to get counseling? 

If this whole situation was just about one 2015 incident that was reported up the chain, no charges filed, he said/she said and then nothing comes of it - then fine. I could understand the stance that Meyer’s only wrongdoing was lying to the media and would agree that he shouldn’t lose his job.

But, we know factually that 2015 is at least the second time that Urban got wind of potential domestic violence against Smith and kept him on staff. Even if the same protocol is followed and no charges are filed - at that point, he’s simply completely incompetent from a pure risk management/ personnel standpoint by keeping Smith on staff. Alarm bells at that point should be blaring and a smart guy in charge of a program like this should know that it’s simply not smart to keep a guy like that on staff, regardless of his guilt or innocence in an official legal capacity. Because even IF he’s not actively “covering up” or concealing abuse, etc., he’s aware of a trend that could bring a lot of potential issues from a PR standpoint to his program, and bring things onto the brink of no-return from a perception standpoint. At the VERY least. 

And this is all IF you 100% believe Meyer’s version of events exactly as he states (despite him being caught in an outright lie about this just last week); and IF you believe that his wife didn’t tell him any details of her talks with Courtney Smith, including the photos of bodily injury; and IF you believe that none of the coaches’ wives shared knowledge of Courtney’s abuse with their husbands on staff; and IF you take at face value the response from the Powell PD that the initial report of an arrest in 2015 was a clerical error; and IF you believe that Urban had zero knowledge of his ‘life coach’ and Earle Bruce meeting with Courtney Smith to convince her to not press charges when the first instance of abuse took place.

 

This is not about one single instance of a properly reported allegation of abuse 3 years ago and a little white lie about it to the media. This is at the very least, a complete blunder in risk and personnel management by keeping someone on staff with multiple serious allegations against him, opening up his program to a firestorm of negative, unnecessary publicity - or worse - as there’s still plenty of additional questions to be answered.

[Texasmade]

A.) Taking Urban Meyer's words at face value, a week after getting caught in a pretty damning lie, a lie which he's already admitted to, is a dubious proposition at best. His benefit of the doubt is gone. If he reported it, and to be fair he may have, but if he did there would be documentation of it. That information will come out in due time. Until it does, he doesn't deserve any real benefit of the doubt in assuming that the words coming out of his mouth aren't bull****. 

B.) His statement was worded as ambiguous as possible, and probably for good reason. At no point did it mention when he knew and/or when he found out or when he reported it. If he found out a week ago, reported it, then fired him, then yes he's probably in the clear. If he found out in 2015, reported it a week ago after it surfaced publicly, then fired him, well then he's got a problem. It may not be a Title IX problem per say, but there's no amount shout to rid Urban Meyer or the University of that stain.

[BobbyPhil1781]

3 hours ago, Leader said:

From The Columbus Dispatch and sums up my thoughts entirely.

"If the investigation shows that Meyer knew about the abuse allegations and I were Ohio State president Michael Drake, I’d clean house. I’d work my way through the Woody Hayes Athletic Center, where I’d give Urban Meyer a cardboard box and a security escort. And I’d keep going, looking also at the athletic director and his 30-plus executive associates, senior associates, associates and assistant athletic directors to determine what they knew and when they knew it"

Its a simple equation: if he knew it and buried it - he deserves to be canned. Period.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180802/michael-arace--defend-urban-meyer-if-you-like-but-if-he-knew-about-abuse-he-should-be-fired

How can you "bury" something but tell your superiors which it's looking more and more like he did? Urban says he has, Zach says he has, logic says he has so why would we have a reason to believe otherwise? 

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

Also, did one of those message board posts really say she’s not trustworthy because she was financially dependent on her husband (or ex)? That’s ... pretty astounding in its ignorance, honestly.

One of them actually simultaneously said that she's a money-grubber who's just looking for an easy cash payout while she's finishing her nursing degree. Yeah, because that's really a fallback for gold diggers: the never-ending nurse gravy train of long hours, hard shifts, and $50k/year.