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Wilson vs Ben, who will have a better career ultimately?

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On 8/11/2018 at 9:59 AM, Jimmy Austin said:

Benny. Wilson's career won't last long if they don't fix that o-line. 

Funny, that's what they said about Ben.

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I thought Wilson was one of the best QB's in the league last year, especially considering the offensive line stinks and he had no running game (led the team in rushing yards, yards per carry and rushing TD's).  With that said, Big Ben is a hell of a player.  I have so much respect for the guy on the field.  I think it will end up being pretty close between the two when it's all said and done.

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I'd love to see Wilson with a true #1. He's like a much more accurate McNabb, back when Donovan's best receiver was James Thrash. Mcnabb had better OL's and receiving RB's to work with too, but RW still finds ways to compete against any team. 

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I'm sorry but where is this Seahawks have had no offensive talent narrative coming from?

With Lynch Unger Okung and Sweezy they were the most powerful rushing offenses in the NFL. Then even after they left Baldwin emerged and they got Jimmy a top 10ish receiving duo

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Ben has been the better QB, but Wilson still has a lot of time left. 

And lol at supporting cast, when Wilson got to play with the arguable best defense of the millennium.  That kinda matters.  

Wilson might age poorly, but he can be a good pocket passer as well.  Time will tell, but right now, it's Ben.

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I think Wilson will. He already has the ring with plenty of time to get another, and the guy is on pace to become a statistical madman when you factor in both passing and rushing. He also doesn't miss games, an incredible feat for a mobile QB. 

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23 hours ago, ShupacTakur said:

I think Wilson will. He already has the ring with plenty of time to get another, and the guy is on pace to become a statistical madman when you factor in both passing and rushing. He also doesn't miss games, an incredible feat for a mobile QB. 

Russell does turn 30 this year, and Seattle appears to be an organization in transition. The defense has holes to fill, Marshawn Lynch wasn't replaced, and the offensive line has issues. Not so long ago folks were talking about how smart the Seahawks were, but there's a sense the window is closing. The head coach is one of the oldest in the NFL, and the Rams seem poised for long term success. Big Ben won't just be a first ballot HOF QB based on impressive career stats, it's also the winning. Wilson has a long way to go to reach that level, and now there are questions about the future of that organization.  

Matthew Stafford is also on pace to be a statistical madman, but unless something changes, who really cares? A QB has to do more than just put up gaudy numbers. 

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44 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Russell does turn 30 this year, and Seattle appears to be an organization in transition. The defense has holes to fill, Marshawn Lynch wasn't replaced, and the offensive line has issues. Not so long ago folks were talking about how smart the Seahawks were, but there's a sense the window is closing. The head coach is one of the oldest in the NFL, and the Rams seem poised for long term success. Big Ben won't just be a first ballot HOF QB based on impressive career stats, it's also the winning. Wilson has a long way to go to reach that level, and now there are questions about the future of that organization.  

Matthew Stafford is also on pace to be a statistical madman, but unless something changes, who really cares? A QB has to do more than just put up gaudy numbers. 

Wilson has already won a super bowl and been to another, so there goes the Matt Stafford comparison already. Also, 30 is nothing for a QB these days with dudes regularly extending their primes to 36-37 and occasionally later.

As far as the organization goes, things change so quickly now that their division could look completely different just a couple of years from now and it wouldn’t really surprise anyone. As it stands, I believe Wilson is a good enough QB that building the team back up around him will not be as difficult as other rebuilding situations. This time it’ll likely be with him as the central piece instead of the defense. In fact, in some ways that would be very similar to Big Ben’s career in Pittsburgh, except I believe Wilson was a better QB early in his career than Ben was. 

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5 minutes ago, ShupacTakur said:

Wilson has already won a super bowl and been to another, so there goes the Matt Stafford comparison already. Also, 30 is nothing for a QB these days with dudes regularly extending their primes to 36-37 and occasionally later.

As far as the organization goes, things change so quickly now that their division could look completely different just a couple of years from now and it wouldn’t really surprise anyone. As it stands, I believe Wilson is a good enough QB that building the team back up around him will not be as difficult as other rebuilding situations. This time it’ll likely be with him as the central piece instead of the defense. In fact, in some ways that would be very similar to Big Ben’s career in Pittsburgh, except I believe Wilson was a better QB early in his career than Ben was. 

My point about Stafford is how stats alone aren't enough when talking about the HOF. If Wilson's career as a 30+ year old QB involves mediocre teams, and more sitting home for the playoffs, that's not helpful at all. The topic of this post was who would have the better career ultimately, so even if Seattle bounces back, Wilson has an uphill climb. As things stand right now, he's a HOF contender, a major difference from a first ballot HOF QB like Ben. We have no idea about injuries, or when Wilson may decide to step away from the game. 

It's very debatable whether Wilson was a better QB than Ben over their first five years. Ben's first five seasons are superior to many QBs already enshrined in Canton.            

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3 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

My point about Stafford is how stats alone aren't enough when talking about the HOF. If Wilson's career as a 30+ year old QB involves mediocre teams, and more sitting home for the playoffs, that's not helpful at all. The topic of this post was who would have the better career ultimately, so even if Seattle bounces back, Wilson has an uphill climb. As things stand right now, he's a HOF contender, a major difference from a first ballot HOF QB like Ben. We have no idea about injuries, or when Wilson may decide to step away from the game. 

It's very debatable whether Wilson was a better QB than Ben over their first five years. Ben's first five seasons are superior to many QBs already enshrined in Canton.            

Well yeah, stats alone are just stats. If anything, I find Stafford more comparable to Rivers than anyone, but that logic still doesn't really apply to a guy who already has a ring, even if he misses the playoffs a few times. 

Ben's first five years were good in general, but a statistically mixed bag. He won two super bowls, but neither of those seasons were all that statistically impressive. He also had an 18 TD, 23 INT season thrown in there as well. Wilson had more yards, more touchdowns, fewer games missed, far fewer interceptions, won a super bowl, and appeared in another. Never mind his rushing statistics. If I'm offered a choice between early-career Ben or early-career Russell, I'm taking Wilson every time. 

Obviously the guy still has to prove it on the back end of his career as well, and that will be largely contingent on the competence of the Seahawks organization going forward, but he is trending toward an illustrious career, and if I were a betting man, I'd say he will have the Seahawks in the thick of the discussion more often than not.     

 

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20 hours ago, ShupacTakur said:

Well yeah, stats alone are just stats. If anything, I find Stafford more comparable to Rivers than anyone, but that logic still doesn't really apply to a guy who already has a ring, even if he misses the playoffs a few times. 

Ben's first five years were good in general, but a statistically mixed bag. He won two super bowls, but neither of those seasons were all that statistically impressive. He also had an 18 TD, 23 INT season thrown in there as well. Wilson had more yards, more touchdowns, fewer games missed, far fewer interceptions, won a super bowl, and appeared in another. Never mind his rushing statistics. If I'm offered a choice between early-career Ben or early-career Russell, I'm taking Wilson every time. 

Obviously the guy still has to prove it on the back end of his career as well, and that will be largely contingent on the competence of the Seahawks organization going forward, but he is trending toward an illustrious career, and if I were a betting man, I'd say he will have the Seahawks in the thick of the discussion more often than not.     

 

I've liked Wilson since college, not just the skillset, but his professional approach as well. Really kept it together after the SB disappointment against New England when it had to be killing him inside, and the media was looking for a story pitting him against the offensive coordinator. From the outside, appears to be a classy person, leader, and I think that reflects strongly on how he was raised. Rooting for Wilson to eventually reach the HOF.

Ben Roethlisberger's greatness really doesn't rely solely on individual statistics. He's one of the toughest QBs in league history, and won a staggering number of games overcoming adversity. That's really the essence of #7, it often hasn't been pretty, just extremely effective in the most important stat of all-wins. The win at Baltimore a few years ago with a bloody, broken nose really sums it up. In an hostile environment against a talented defense, Roethlisberger once again found a way to win, when so many other QBs  would have been forced out of the game. As great as Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are, they're losing that street fight of a game.

Ben's first five seasons are still sensational. 2006 was an aberration, the Steelers foolishly rushed him back after the severe motorcycle accident, they started 2-6, finished 6-2.  Don't think many HOF(and future HOF) QBs would have been capable of starting so far ahead of schedule in 2004, yet pulling off a 15-1 rookie campaign, with three road comeback wins. Along the way, BR helped snap New England's record regular season winning streak in decisive fashion.

In 2005, Roethlisberger starred in three road playoff wins, outplaying Peyton Manning in the process. The game-saving tackle on a Colt was a play for the ages, and candidly, a play, many HOF QBs would have been incapable of making. We can talk about Ben's underwhelming stats in the SB, but the Steelers don't reach Detroit without his play in those three road playoff conquests. 2007 was a strong year, as Ben took strides as a passer.

2008 was a great season, once you look at context behind the individual statistics. The 2008 Steelers had one of the worst offensive lines of any SB champion, and a poor running attack to boot. Roethlisberger still brought the team back multiple times during that regular season,  and led one of the greatest drives in SB history, after a shocking defensive mistake nearly cost Pittsburgh the title.

  

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