WE-R-Lions Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 8 minutes ago, Lions017 said: Woah woah woah...we're just adjusting the scoring for defense? Without voting on it? And adding a rule about not keeping defenses? Without voting on it? And it's all taking effect this year? Without voting on it? Interesting. Did anyone ask for this? I get wanting to make defense more important but I didn't really think anyone was pushing for that or discussing it. Shouldn't we all follow the process and have votes for things like that? We just had time to vote on things. I'm not sure how I feel about sack yardage. That just feels like...luck, kind of? Forced punts being worth a whole point? That just seems like it will add up fairly quickly. And a fourth down stop is worth two? I don't like those changes at all. Like...yikes. Do we really want defenses to be a major factor in why people win/lose games? We'll have defenses outscoring position players regularly. Many leagues are getting rid of defenses altogether, and we're doubling down? I'm following the process: (LM has final say on all rules, trades, and disputes, but can ask for input.) found on Pg 1 of the post In this case, I was asking for feed back/input Our rules don't indicate we have to vote on changes. As stated above: (In ESPN they (Def) always started with 10pt's not sure if that will be the case with Sleeper?? There is no setting in either format that I can find?) This year our Def could start with 0 pt's? I just don't know. 1. We reward 2pt to a Def for a turnover. Stopping a team on downs is a turnover. 2. So is Punt but a lesser deg. 3. Rewarding yardage on a sack + the sack is no different than a WR geting a pt for the catch & yardage. 4. Dropping Def's at the keepers deadline puts everyone on an even playing field. I do appreciate your input. Does anyone know if Sleeper Def's starts with 10 pts like ESPN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, WE-R-Lions said: I'm following the process: (LM has final say on all rules, trades, and disputes, but can ask for input.) found on Pg 1 of the post In this case, I was asking for feed back/input Our rules don't indicate we have to vote on changes. As stated above: (In ESPN they (Def) always started with 10pt's not sure if that will be the case with Sleeper?? There is no setting in either format that I can find?) This year our Def could start with 0 pt's? I just don't know. 1. We reward 2pt to a Def for a turnover. Stopping a team on downs is a turnover. 2. So is Punt but a lesser deg. 3. Rewarding yardage on a sack + the sack is no different than a WR geting a pt for the catch & yardage. 4. Dropping Def's at the keepers deadline puts everyone on an even playing field. I do appreciate your input. Does anyone know if Sleeper Def's starts with 10 pts like ESPN? It starts with 10 points if they give up 0 points, so yes. This whole thing needs more research. I have never been in a league where the commish can just make sweeping changes like that. That’s ridiculous. I see what the rules says and I can’t believe you’re fine just changing a ton of stuff with ultimate authority. This is a league with sixteen different people and I don’t think that fifteen of them have mentioned wanting defense to be more important - maybe I’m wrong but I can’t remember anyone pushing for it before. This is like you randomly decided to add points for first downs and carries for RB’s and are telling people they can only keep four or something. It’s kind of a big deal. Edited March 14 by Lions017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 3/13/2024 at 9:26 AM, WE-R-Lions said: Please Welcome @Hagar to the league, he will be replacing @Karnage84 Thanks all, glad to be here! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 3/11/2024 at 2:00 PM, detfan782004 said: So many questions answered already. Jacobs to GB. Giants need a RB now. Loving how this shaping up Now M. Brown signing with KC this offseason so far could not have gone any better for my roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 22 hours ago, Lions017 said: Woah woah woah...we're just adjusting the scoring for defense? Without voting on it? And adding a rule about not keeping defenses? Without voting on it? And it's all taking effect this year? Without voting on it? Interesting. Did anyone ask for this? I get wanting to make defense more important but I didn't really think anyone was pushing for that or discussing it. Shouldn't we all follow the process and have votes for things like that? We just had time to vote on things. I'm not sure how I feel about sack yardage. That just feels like...luck, kind of? Forced punts being worth a whole point? That just seems like it will add up fairly quickly. And a fourth down stop is worth two? I don't like those changes at all. Like...yikes. Do we really want defenses to be a major factor in why people win/lose games? We'll have defenses outscoring position players regularly. Many leagues are getting rid of defenses altogether, and we're doubling down? Any scoring changes need to be extremely well thought out and intentional, otherwise they really have the chance to be game-breaking. Is there a way to really run the numbers and see how this would turn out? Yea that was my concern too. Def becoming more valuable than stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just running some real quick numbers... The Ravens had 454 sack yards last year. That adds 45.4 points to them. The Ravens also had 4.7 forced punts per game - that's 80 points. That right there is adding 125 points to the Ravens defense - without factoring in the 4th down stops, which I can't find good stats for right now. They only scored 165 fantasy points all season - with this new system, they would be at 290. They are now a Top 25 fantasy scorer. If I could figure out the 4th down stops they would probably be Top 15-20. Sure, they were the top defense...but is that really what we want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, Lions017 said: Just running some real quick numbers... The Ravens had 454 sack yards last year. That adds 45.4 points to them. The Ravens also had 4.7 forced punts per game - that's 80 points. That right there is adding 125 points to the Ravens defense - without factoring in the 4th down stops, which I can't find good stats for right now. They only scored 165 fantasy points all season - with this new system, they would be at 290. They are now a Top 25 fantasy scorer. If I could figure out the 4th down stops they would probably be Top 15-20. Sure, they were the top defense...but is that really what we want? Balt had the lowest 4th down allowed around 40% so it would bolster them into top 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WE-R-Lions Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 So here is my info on my reasoning for making the improvements to our Def scoring to make them relevant. Our top scoring Def average was 9.7 pts per-game, our 16th Def averaged 6.1 pts Comparing them to our RB/WR's, our 38th RB averaged 9.7, our 51st WR averaged 9.7 pts The NFL averages 2.5 sacks per game, with an average of 6.5 yards per sack. This would add 1.6 pts to our Def average scores between 11.3 - 7.7 The NFL averages 1.5 stops on downs per game. This would add 3 pts to our Def average scores between 14.3 - 10.7 The NFL averages 4 punts per game. This would add 4 pts to our Def average scores between 18.3 - 14.7 So....putting them in line with our top RB/WR's, our 3rd RB averaged 18.1 our 6th WR averaged 18 pts At the end of the day a top Def could score like a top RB or top WR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 24 minutes ago, WE-R-Lions said: So here is my info on my reasoning for making the improvements to our Def scoring to make them relevant. Our top scoring Def average was 9.7 pts per-game, our 16th Def averaged 6.1 pts Comparing them to our RB/WR's, our 38th RB averaged 9.7, our 51st WR averaged 9.7 pts The NFL averages 2.5 sacks per game, with an average of 6.5 yards per sack. This would add 1.6 pts to our Def average scores between 11.3 - 7.7 The NFL averages 1.5 stops on downs per game. This would add 3 pts to our Def average scores between 14.3 - 10.7 The NFL averages 4 punts per game. This would add 4 pts to our Def average scores between 18.3 - 14.7 So....putting them in line with our top RB/WR's, our 3rd RB averaged 18.1 our 6th WR averaged 18 pts At the end of the day a top Def could score like a top RB or top WR And that's not something that I think is a good decision. That is going very far against the grain as far as most fantasy leagues go. I'm just not getting the sudden need to make defense so much more important. I would be interested if anyone else wants this. So far no one has spoken up saying that it's something that they are excited for. That’s a pretty major change to make just because you feel like it. I’d be interested in seeing a poll or vote. Edited March 15 by Lions017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Factor_40 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lions017 said: Just running some real quick numbers... The Ravens had 454 sack yards last year. That adds 45.4 points to them. The Ravens also had 4.7 forced punts per game - that's 80 points. That right there is adding 125 points to the Ravens defense - without factoring in the 4th down stops, which I can't find good stats for right now. They only scored 165 fantasy points all season - with this new system, they would be at 290. They are now a Top 25 fantasy scorer. If I could figure out the 4th down stops they would probably be Top 15-20. Sure, they were the top defense...but is that really what we want? In addition to the concerns that you have already raised, how steep is the fall off in terms of the top 3-5 or whatever it may be defenses compared to the rest? Once one of us secures a top defense, we would never be incentivized to let them go. Several of those units are the strength of their teams and are always reloaded and near the top of fantasy rankings. How much of an advantage does that give the first handful of owners that overdraft a defense? Baltimore, for example, has had a top defense for seemingly forever. Once an owner drafts them, they’d never change teams. How much does that handicap the owners that don’t jump on the trend early in the draft? I can’t imagine these assets will move much, if ever going forward. I have no clue without looking at all of the stats, but that’s one of my main concerns. I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another yet, but I always prefer to be cautious making significant changes and would prefer to vote on everything. I don’t have a super strong opinion on this, but I do think it’s worth an open debate and potentially a vote. I would almost prefer to get rid of defenses than to make a handful of them OP, but as I mentioned, I have no clue what the full picture looks like as of yet. Just wanted to throw my concerns out there on top of what @Lions017 has mentioned. Edited March 15 by X_Factor_40 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 The way you offset the decision to make them So valuable would be to not let them be keepers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) If you look on Sleeper I think you can see what the defenses would’ve had with the new settings. A lot are over 200 points. An average defense would be a high end WR or RB or even QB. That’s nuts to me. It seems particularly tricky in a 16 team league. I just…don’t get it. Legit seems like it could destroy a very long lasting league to me with a change that no one is asking for. Edited March 16 by Lions017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 15 minutes ago, Lions017 said: If you look on Sleeper I think you can see what the defenses would’ve had with the new settings. A lot are over 200 points. An average defense would be a high end WR or RB or even QB. That’s nuts to me. It seems particularly tricky in a 16 team league. I just…don’t get it. Legit seems like it could destroy a very long lasting league to me with a change that no one is asking for. Yes the Ravens would have scored like CJ Stroud did. Changes a lot for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WE-R-Lions Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 Last year Stroud scored 332 pts. Sleeper is projecting 397 pts for 2024 Last year Balt scored 165 pts. Sleeper is projecting 115 pts for 2024 with the added settings, the projected pts should be higher. I don't see what's missing in the setting or the numbers your indicating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WE-R-Lions Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Tomorrow I will update the 24 draft pks on Sleeper, I'm thinking that will also adj the draft too. Unless my wife has other plans for the day.... We still need two GM's to join Sleeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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