Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

It's a big plot hole that literally could've been filled in with 10 seconds of additional footage. That's why I call it lazy writing. Literally could've taken 10 seconds form Jorah's death sequence and added it here to tie everything together.

 

This is where my gripes come from. They've spent 7 seasons setting up this exact point, the NK and his army are the greatest threat to humanity- the "Game of Thrones" is ancillary to this. And they Kill the NK off and end the battle with an ally-oop in bounds play with .02 on the clock. 

Did they really tho?  Or do you just feel like they did.  How much time has actually been spent with the army of the dead?  1 hour screen time total in 69 hours of programming?  Maybe 2?  The whole show has been about the greatest threat to humanity being the quest for power.  Jaime had to kill the Mad King to stop him from burning kings landing to the ground.  Cersei destroys half of KL herself for power.  Dany darn near loses her Army bc of the quest for power.  This show has one basic theme, power corrupts.  This is why the hero of our story is the one guy in all the 7 kingdoms who wants to stay as far away from power as possible ( he joins the nights watch, he reluctantly accepts the LC position.  He bends the knee to Stannis and then Dany.  And now he is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, and I'm guessing he would rather go back to castle black than rule the 7 kingdoms.  Jon accepts his duty as protector of the realms of men, he doesn seek it out.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

I didnt get the NK not killing the clock and making his move when he did.  He totally "Falconed" the Super Bowl.

When he died they showed all the dead falling, there was still a good 50k outside Winterfell still pouring over the walls and through the gate. And hes, "Ive waited 1000s of years. I just cant wait 5 more minutes."

I think it's because the show greatly shows how arrogant and impatient he is, at times. People wanted to believe he was smarter than everyone else but really he wasn't.

[Daniel]

11 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Debate over this episode won't last, it's over once the next episode hits. Everyone will move on to discussion about the end run to the Iron Throne and forget all about this battle.

True.  If the next episodes play out like older GOT episodes, with it being 90% character drama and backstabbing, I could care less about the dumber points of the big battle.

[DoleINGout]

As a testament to this show, virtually everyone wanted AND expected this episode -- wait -- EVERY episode to be literally the greatest thing ever produced on screen. Falls short of being the best ever with each subsequent episode and the criticism I see comes from those unreasonable expectations. And why? All because they took one year more to produce everything than originally booked.

[Superman(DH23)]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I think it's because the show greatly shows how arrogant and impatient he is, at times. People wanted to believe he was smarter than everyone else but really he wasn't.

I have no idea why people assumed he was some great strategist.  We've been given no evidence of this.  The whole show the WWs, the wights, and the NK have been all brute force.  Hardhome he shows up at the end and just raises all the dead as if to say I'm invincible.  Season 6 he doesnt demonstrate some great battle plan, he literally just waits for the ice to reform and goes back to the brute force with overwhelming numbers. 

[candyman93]

10 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I think it's because the show greatly shows how arrogant and impatient he is, at times. People wanted to believe he was smarter than everyone else but really he wasn't.

I agree.

 

A thing that wasn’t human, acted human and it let to his demise.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I have no idea why people assumed he was some great strategist.  We've been given no evidence of this.  The whole show the WWs, the wights, and the NK have been all brute force.  Hardhome he shows up at the end and just raises all the dead as if to say I'm invincible.  Season 6 he doesnt demonstrate some great battle plan, he literally just waits for the ice to reform and goes back to the brute force with overwhelming numbers. 

The brilliance of him waiting, I thought, was to draw out Dany and her dragons. He's shown signs of doing things smartly, but yeah his whole battle plan is just "I have more undead people than you have people in general and I'm just going to throw everyone at you" - he's not some strategist whose cautiously or smartly using his resources.

[pwny]

The entire point of the way they did the whole lead up was to leave us wondering how Jon would get to the NK in time. It built tension, making you wonder if he could get there because he was *supposed* to be the one getting there.

You were supposed to forget about Arya, so it was a shock that she was there when Jon was so far away. But now we’re going to complain that they didn’t just telegraph that Arya was going to be the hero by continually showing her sneaking around and getting around things no one else could?

We’ve seen throughout the entire show that Arya knows her way around Winterfell like no one else, and we watched an entire season of her training with the faceless men, where she learned how to get into places that no one else can be. And suddenly it’s a plot hole that they didn’t show us something that we took seasons and entire episodes learning that she could do?

[LeeEvans]

46 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

How is that small to nitpick? The entire crux of the story depends on her ability to escape Winterfell (which they clearly show has been overrun and humanity is on the verge of collapse) AND get to the godswood, you know, the same Godswood that Jon can't get to. Literally the entire plot line depends on it. It's bad writing, I don't get why that's not understood? 

I've got to agree. She had already gotten trapped by them once and barely got out of the library with only 10 around her and she somehow covers that much ground undetected and then just silently sprints past a circle of wights and white walkers to save the day at the last second just feels a like cheap resolution in my opinion.

I've said it before but if she is capable of doing that then what's the point of these next three episodes just have her use her assassin skills and kill all the remaining leaders. Her power has been getting too high for a while now but this episode made her absolutely unstoppable. The other main characters are good fighters but Arya is literally able to kill anyone, anywhere at any time apparently. The balance of power is completely broken now. I think the show would have done well to have Jon and maybe another member fighting the NK and then having Arya slip in and kill him as he was close two defeating the others so at least it wasnt completely all on her own.

[Dr LBC]

15 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I agree.

 

A thing that wasn’t human, acted human and it let to his demise.

To be fair, he at least used to be human.

[sunnygsm]

A part that bugged me was how the episode undermined itself in some ways. The first 30-40 mins fantastically ramped up this growing sense of dread. By the time the wights climb the wall, I genuinely thought they were done. I already expected them to get overwhelmed, but they did in a way that was far greater than I had imagined.

But then they started teasing the viewers. Showing our heroes surrounded, get stabbed, chomped and whatever else. They had no right to survive. Cut to 5 minutes later and they're still alive and somehow the swarm of wights is gone. I struggle with that aspect of this episode. It felt like a cheap way to tug at the viewer and by the 5th time it happened, my immersion was broken. 

[PARROTHEAD]

7 minutes ago, LeeEvans said:

I've got to agree. She had already gotten trapped by them once and barely got out of the library with only 10 around her and she somehow covers that much ground undetected and then just silently sprints past a circle of wights and white walkers to save the day at the last second just feels a like cheap in my opinion.

I've said it before but if she is capable of doing that then what's the point of these next three episodes just have her use her assassin skills and kill all the remaining leaders. Our power has been getting too high for a while now but this episode made her absolutely unstoppable. The other main characters are good fighters but Arya is literally able to kill anyone, anywhere at any time apparently. The balance of power is completely broken now. I think the show would have done well to have Jon and maybe another member fighting the NK and then having Arya slip in and kill him as he was close two defeating the others so at least it wasnt completely all on her own.

Fully agree with all that.

See one of D&D get asked a couple years back: Who is it tougher to write for? Arya or Sansa? And the reply was Arya was so easy because theyd sit around and dream up the most badass situations possible. Then make it happen. Hearing that made me sick because we were coming away from the politically inspired books and are getting a 90lb, teenage Batman. I thought that would ease as storylines got heavy. But they doubled down on her. Wish they had stuck with her book version, kept her away from being a warrior and made her strictly an assassin. Giving her more assassin situations to build that aspect instead of joke scenes like sparing with Brienne.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, sunnygsm said:

A part that bugged me was how the episode undermined itself in some ways. The first 30-40 mins fantastically ramped up this growing sense of dread. By the time the wights climb the wall, I genuinely thought they were done. I already expected them to get overwhelmed, but they did in a way that was far greater than I had imagined.

But then they started teasing the viewers. Showing our heroes surrounded, get stabbed, chomped and whatever else. They had no right to survive. Cut to 5 minutes later and they're still alive and somehow the swarm of wights is gone. I struggle with that aspect of this episode. It felt like a cheap way to tug at the viewer and by the 5th time it happened, my immersion was broken. 

I swear I saw Brienne die twice in this episode, only to see her standing unharmed 30 seconds later.

[Deadpulse]

I dont know how you all post so much during the day. This thread has gained like 20 pages just in the time Ive been at work

[candyman93]

Just awesome scene. 5:16 is the perfect way to use darkness in a scene.