JonStark Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, scar988 said: I think at a certain point, we're just being nit-picky. It's weird, before this past episode I was thinking the same thing. I'm fine with some of the crazy theories not coming to fruition. I'm fine with a few plot holes or a few loose ends at the finish. This past episode was sloppy though, and adding to the fact they turned down more time to tell their story, I'm not sure how you can say that D&D haven't already checked out. I'm pretty sure in the books Jon's last words before dying was "Ghost". Do you really think it was more powerful or remotely in his character for him to just look at his whimpering friend and walk away? If it were just one of these slip ups, I'd let it slide, but there were 3 or 4 of them in that episode alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I don't understand what the obsessions is this season with fighting OUTSIDE THE WALLS of your castle. In the Battle of the Blackwater, they were at least smart enough to use the castle walls to repel Stannis' forces. If that battle took place in S8 Tyrion would've been like "let's all fight on the beaches!" or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, JonStark said: It's weird, before this past episode I was thinking the same thing. I'm fine with some of the crazy theories not coming to fruition. I'm fine with a few plot holes or a few loose ends at the finish. This past episode was sloppy though, and adding to the fact they turned down more time to tell their story, I'm not sure how you can say that D&D haven't already checked out. I'm pretty sure in the books Jon's last words before dying was "Ghost". Do you really think it was more powerful or remotely in his character for him to just look at his whimpering friend and walk away? If it were just one of these slip ups, I'd let it slide, but there were 3 or 4 of them in that episode alone. Maybe saying a "proper" goodbye was something that he couldn't bare. Kind of like he felt he might change his mind if he spent that extra time with Ghost. I don't know what the obsession is with that part because it really didn't pull me out of the episode at all. Just because you feel like YOU would do something doesn't mean the character would or has to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, JonStark said: It's weird, before this past episode I was thinking the same thing. I'm fine with some of the crazy theories not coming to fruition. I'm fine with a few plot holes or a few loose ends at the finish. This past episode was sloppy though, and adding to the fact they turned down more time to tell their story, I'm not sure how you can say that D&D haven't already checked out. I'm pretty sure in the books Jon's last words before dying was "Ghost". Do you really think it was more powerful or remotely in his character for him to just look at his whimpering friend and walk away? If it were just one of these slip ups, I'd let it slide, but there were 3 or 4 of them in that episode alone. 3-4? Theres a lot more. Euron has 1000 ships, and they know theyre somewhere in Blackwater Bay. You have the Tom Brady of smuggling standing there in the war room. Why is he helping march an army south over land? "Well Davos kinda forgot he was a sea captain for 30 years" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: Maybe saying a "proper" goodbye was something that he couldn't bare. Kind of like he felt he might change his mind if he spent that extra time with Ghost. I don't know what the obsession is with that part because it really didn't pull me out of the episode at all. Just because you feel like YOU would do something doesn't mean the character would or has to do the same thing. No, the character of Jon Snow has shown to have a strong connection to Ghost. Ghost defended his dead body and didn't leave the room. I think just because you personally don't have a problem with the scene, you're trying to justify that it's possible it fits Jon's character. That's false. It 100% does not fit his character in the books, and it doesn't fit his character in the show, at all, ESPECIALLY after the heartfelt goodbyes Tormund and Sam got seconds before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said: 3-4? Theres a lot more. Euron has 1000 ships, and they know theyre somewhere in Blackwater Bay. You have the Tom Brady of smuggling standing there in the war room. Why is he helping march an army south over land? "Well Davos kinda forgot he was a sea captain for 30 years" I was being nice. I should've said at least 3-4, although the ones I brought up were the only ones that I really took issue with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I don't understand what the obsessions is this season with fighting OUTSIDE THE WALLS of your castle. In the Battle of the Blackwater, they were at least smart enough to use the castle walls to repel Stannis' forces. If that battle took place in S8 Tyrion would've been like "let's all fight on the beaches!" or something. I think that's just because a siege where the good guys stay in a castle doesn't make for a great battle scene. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 minute ago, JonStark said: No, the character of Jon Snow has shown to have a strong connection to Ghost. Ghost defended his dead body and didn't leave the room. I think just because you personally don't have a problem with the scene, you're trying to justify that it's possible it fits Jon's character. That's false. It 100% does not fit his character in the books, and it doesn't fit his character in the show, at all, ESPECIALLY after the heartfelt goodbyes Tormund and Sam got seconds before. Not giving Ghost a heartfelt goodbye does not mean that he doesn't care for him as much. It CAN mean that it would hurt Jon too much to say goodbye to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Just now, skywlker32 said: Not giving Ghost a heartfelt goodbye does not mean that he doesn't care for him as much. It CAN mean that it would hurt Jon too much to say goodbye to him. Since when has it been in Jon's character to avoid doing the right thing because it was hard? Please give me one example. This is the guy who told Cersei to his face that he was sworn to Dany, knowing what the consequence would be. He made sure to say goodbye to Bran before he left for the NW knowing Cat was in the room ad he wouldn't be received well, but saying goodbye to arguably his best friend (it's Ghost or Sam, who DID get a goodbye) is too hard? It was either a cop out to save CGI money (although they easily could've used the money spent to show Ghost stand there by himself in the same scene to cover it) or it was lazy writing. It's absolutely not in his character to walk right by him. Like I said, I've defended the writing as passable up until this episode, but they botched it in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: Not giving Ghost a heartfelt goodbye does not mean that he doesn't care for him as much. It CAN mean that it would hurt Jon too much to say goodbye to him. Wah. You sack up and at least give Ghost some comforting words. Leaving your dog should hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I don't understand what the obsessions is this season with fighting OUTSIDE THE WALLS of your castle. In the Battle of the Blackwater, they were at least smart enough to use the castle walls to repel Stannis' forces. If that battle took place in S8 Tyrion would've been like "let's all fight on the beaches!" or something. Um... they're using sellswords from the golden company. They don't give a damn about their lives. That's why they are fighting beyond the walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Daniel said: I think that's just because a siege where the good guys stay in a castle doesn't make for a great battle scene. Battle of the Blackwater the 'good guys' stay inside the castle, but eventually have to fight outside the walls. That's completely believable if the goal is to prevent the castle from being breached. In S8, the battle just starts outside the walls lol 11 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: Not giving Ghost a heartfelt goodbye does not mean that he doesn't care for him as much. It CAN mean that it would hurt Jon too much to say goodbye to him. You may have a point, but if that was the goal of the scene - that saying goodbye to Ghost would be too much, JUST TELL US THAT. Here, I'll do it: Sansa: "Did you say goodbye to Ghost?" Jon: "I couldn't. It was too hard." BOOM. Powerful. Instead we get nothing. 3 minutes ago, scar988 said: Um... they're using sellswords from the golden company. They don't give a damn about their lives. That's why they are fighting beyond the walls. Sure, except both battles in S8 have taken place outside the castle walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, JonStark said: Since when has it been in Jon's character to avoid doing the right thing because it was hard? Please give me one example. This is the guy who told Cersei to his face that he was sworn to Dany, knowing what the consequence would be. He made sure to say goodbye to Bran before he left for the NW knowing Cat was in the room ad he wouldn't be received well, but saying goodbye to arguably his best friend (it's Ghost or Sam, who DID get a goodbye) is too hard? It was either a cop out to save CGI money (although they easily could've used the money spent to show Ghost stand there by himself in the same scene to cover it) or it was lazy writing. It's absolutely not in his character to walk right by him. Like I said, I've defended the writing as passable up until this episode, but they botched it in this one. I should have posted it like with the mini-gun thing. But some guy spent 50 bucks and made a clip of Jon handing Ghost over to Sansa. It wasnt great quality, his first attempt and reusing show footage. But he put Ghost in a shot with Sansa and her hand position made it look kinda like she was scratching him behind the ear. Still say the money thing is a copout to shift blame of their laziness. Edited May 10, 2019 by PARROTHEAD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I don't understand what the obsessions is this season with fighting OUTSIDE THE WALLS of your castle. In the Battle of the Blackwater, they were at least smart enough to use the castle walls to repel Stannis' forces. If that battle took place in S8 Tyrion would've been like "let's all fight on the beaches!" or something. There are is a dragons. Everyone remembers the lesson from Harrenhal. Edited May 10, 2019 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: There are is a dragons. Everyone remembers the lesson from Harrenhal. One dragon, which their plan was to intercept with the two dragons on their side. Fighting outside the castle is still definitely bad strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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