Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[PARROTHEAD]

Just now, Nazgul said:

You're the real monster if you didn't get hit in the feels with the Drogon in the Throne Room stuff.

My pre ep1 post.

 

[RavensTillIDie]

Game of Thrones Had an Opportunity With Daenerys Targaryen. The Show Squandered It

 

Way better written than I could have ever put it.

[Dr LBC]

41 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

The snarky "why do you think I came all this way" (implying that he wanted to be King all along) was just so out of character and weird.

If he is gonna be the creepy 3ER and basically non-human, that is fine. But that was just weird.

That line is really the only issue I have with the throne (notice, no crown sat on his head - which I do believe is an intentional choice) passing to Bran - and it could have been a fair line if it hadn't been delivered in the creepy 3ER tone.  The throne, like his own greensight and being the 3ER, would eventually pass on from him to someone (in this case very likely different someones) new and deemed worthy when it's his time to pass.  Nature seeking to balance itself out.

One other bit, that was some good writing (people can knock it all they want but if it's thought-provoking, it's good writing) was the bit about the 1 thing people loving more than anything is a good story.  Makes you wonder how much of the stories or how many of the "heroes" of the past were perhaps a bit more inflated than they really were in passing?  Or as the old adage go, history is written by the victors (which I believe was actually a line of Tywin's dialogue in one of the first three seasons).

[sunnygsm]

18 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I don’t wanna go through 45 pages of reading. What was everyone elses consensus on this episode?

As with much of season 8, it had great moments surrounded by rushed material. The conclusion is a bit meh for me. I guess it's the best outcome for Westeros but the end was more bitter than bittersweet. Overall, I would have been more ok with it had they spent more time reaching it. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Nazgul said:

I didn't love and I didn't hate it. I do, however, accept it for what it is.

I don't think the issue was writing, but the handicap the show had (or put itself in) by shortening the past two seasons. With 6 more episodes, we could have had better pacing so these turns (Dany for example) were a bit more believable and heartbreaking instead of confusing.

So all in all, I didn't hate this season. Though I know I may be in the small non-bitter minority here. 

I'm in line with Naz on this (I feel dirty just saying that). 

That finale was fine. There were certainly spots that were not great - agree with some of what Parrot said, for example (the small council meeting felt almost "sitcommy" and highly forced...I Think they were going for the weird awkwardness that would come with these guys basically trying to rebuild the country, but still, it didn't jive feeling wise). There are some inconsistencies for sure, but almost all of them are brought on by the brevity of the final two seasons in my opinion. I didn't hate the writing in and of itself in a lot of ways, but the shortened seasons absolutely crushed the pacing and escalated things to a point that was kind of shell shocking. 

I honestly don't have a problem with the end result of the players. I've always felt Arya's more natural end would be to die, and I'm not discounting that happens in the books, but sailing west of westeros is whatever (side note - couldn't Bran tell her what is west of westeros?). Dany going mad has made a lot of sense for a long time now in the books and honestly, the seeds were planted in the show long ago. Jon's end result was honestly a true happy ending for him in my opinion. The dude had no interest in ruling, it was kind of evident that he felt most at home way up north...etc. Bran becoming king...I understand the impetus in that, the show simply wasn't able to earn that in the short time period. I understand it...but it wasn't earned. And that was the fatal flaw in a lot of ways for the final two seasons - they weren't able to earn all of the end results. 

But there was a lot of good, a lot of bad in the last two seasons. But the show still did a lot right in my opinion. Did it become a little too fixated on spectacle? Maybe, I think that's a valid complaint, but this could have been a lot worse in my opinion. 

[sunnygsm]

Ending the show discussing brothels was atrocious. That much I'm sure on. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by sunnygsm

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, The LBC said:

One other bit, that was some good writing (people can knock it all they want but if it's thought-provoking, it's good writing) was the bit about the 1 thing people loving more than anything is a good story.  Makes you wonder how much of the stories or how many of the "heroes" of the past were perhaps a bit more inflated than they really were in passing?  Or as the old adage go, history is written by the victors (which I believe was actually a line of Tywin's dialogue in one of the first three seasons).

I actually really liked that bit as well. I remember being on asoiaf board forever ago (probably like 15 years ago or something lol) and posting that I thought that out of all the 5 kings, Robb was always going to be remembered by far the most positive, even though he botched things up so completely off the battlefield. How can the singers deny the story of a man who threw everything away, including his life, for love and honor? It was going to be remembered long after Stannis, Renly, Balon, and probably even Joffrey. He's going to go down in history like Duncan the small and Jenny of Oldstones. 

[lancerman]

51 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

AA specifically will save the world from darkness with the sword of fire. The only way this relates to Dany is if you cherry pick the theory and ignore various major aspects of it and then just say "Well Jon is AA because he killed Dany who is Nissa Nissa" and ignore everything else.

But in the environment of the show, his parentage had literally no impact. Him being Aegon Targaryen meant literally nothing. 

Jon did though. Yes Arya killed the Night King. Jon was the hero that put together a Northern/Wildling/Vale/Unsullied/Dothraki army that got members of House Baratheon, Lannister, Tarth, Target to join along with dragons. Jon is the one who took back the castle of the final stand against them. Jon is the one who secured the dragonglass for his army. Jon is the one who prepped the castle. Jon is the one who led to battle. 

Do you remember the general who organized the battle in history or the soldier or two who got the most important kills? 

Without Jon none of that happens. 

Prophecy’s in this series should never be taken at face value. They always come true in an unexpected way. 

Jon faces the Long Night and won. Then he faces his love the dragon queen and slayed her to save the realm as Azor Ahai slayed Nissa Nissa as part of his quest to save the realm.

And you know what happened right after? All the swords in the Iron Throne glowed red like lightbringer as Drogon burned them. 

Thats not a coincidence. 

As Rheagar put it, he was the Prince Who Was Promised and his song is the Song of Ice and Fire. He saved the world from Ice and Fire. 

When the stories are written and the tales are told, Jon will go down as a legendary hero who saved the world from the two most dangerous threats in history and then retreated back to obscurity at the Wall and faded into memory. 

[Dr LBC]

8 minutes ago, Nazgul said:

I didn't love and I didn't hate it. I do, however, accept it for what it is.

I don't think the issue was writing, but the handicap the show had (or put itself in) by shortening the past two seasons. With 6 more episodes, we could have had better pacing so these turns (Dany for example) were a bit more believable and heartbreaking instead of confusing.

So all in all, I didn't hate this season. Though I know I may be in the small non-bitter minority here. 

This, right here.  This is me.  Could it have been better?  Sure.  Do I think it's line for line how GRRM (assuming his obese butt ever decides to put out the damn books) will finish things?  No.  It is a plausible and acceptable ending?  Yes.  The shortening of the last two seasons definitely hurt.  And I think GoT was also a case where it fell victim to it's own lofty expectations that it set with its prior success.  Very few series that hit the heights that GoT did early on tend to deliver to the level of a standing ovation in their final wrap-up.  Just some series in recent memory, Sons of Anarchy went a similar route; Six Feet Under had an amazing final episode but the final season dragged soooo much.  *cough* Entourage *cough*

[PARROTHEAD]

1 minute ago, sunnygsm said:

Ending the show discussing brothels was atrocious. That much I'm sure on. 

I enjoyed that part in much the same way I enjoy Sharknado. A little silliness before the final farewells.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

Jon did though. Yes Arya killed the Night King. Jon was the hero that put together a Northern/Wildling/Vale/Unsullied/Dothraki army that got members of House Baratheon, Lannister, Tarth, Target to join along with dragons. Jon is the one who took back the castle of the final stand against them. Jon is the one who secured the dragonglass for his army. Jon is the one who prepped the castle. Jon is the one who led to battle. 

Jon's entire arc was defeating the Night King and basically the whole thing boiled down to using Bran as bait so that Arya can kill him. Yay.

So then Jon gets to become King right beacuse he's a Targ + Stark? Nope, Bran steals that, too.

Okay maybe he's King of the North then? Nope, Sansa steals that.

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

Do you remember the general who organized the battle in history or the soldier or two who got the most important kills? 

Without Jon none of that happens. 

As that battle shows, it literally didn't matter because Bran was bait for Arya. They could've accomplished the same outcome without any soldiers there at all. Just hide Arya and put Bran in the courtyard. Same outcome.

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

Prophecy’s in this series should never be taken at face value. They always come true in an unexpected way. 

Yeah such as ruining Jon's entire character arc. I was cool with Arya killing the NK actually because I thought it had some bigger meaning or that it meant Jon would get a bigger meaning, but it was basically just useless filler to allow them to get to King's Landing on time for Episode 5.

 

[Dr LBC]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

I enjoyed that part in much the same way I enjoy Sharknado. A little silliness before the final farewells.

 

And honestly, most shows that try to end on a dramatic note fall flat on their faces.  Imagine if they'd have gone for the (I forget which number ending it felt like) "you don't kneel to anyone" style moment (from RotK) as the final scene.  They'd be getting raked over the coals for going overly saccharine with the finale of a show that was against the grain in terms of being overly saccharine.  This allowed the audience to see and enjoy those that survived and see them finally be able to fall back into some level of normalcy - even if that was the same minutia crap that small councils went about for generations prior and that the man who was king when the series started (Robert) wanted to nothing to do with.

[RavensTillIDie]

11 minutes ago, The LBC said:

This, right here.  This is me.  Could it have been better?  Sure.  Do I think it's line for line how GRRM (assuming his obese butt ever decides to put out the damn books) will finish things?  No.  It is a plausible and acceptable ending?  Yes.  The shortening of the last two seasons definitely hurt.  And I think GoT was also a case where it fell victim to it's own lofty expectations that it set with its prior success.  Very few series that hit the heights that GoT did early on tend to deliver to the level of a standing ovation in their final wrap-up.  Just some series in recent memory, Sons of Anarchy went a similar route; Six Feet Under had an amazing final episode but the final season dragged soooo much.  *cough* Entourage *cough*

I've always wondered about that last part because you're right, very few series have been able to successfully deliver a satisfying, smart ending. No matter how good a show's writing may appear or how many beautiful arcs they've spun up, very few seem to be able to bring it all together in a fitting conclusion. Are endings just that difficult or is it more so an issue related to the medium in which we view these stories?

[NYRaider]

It also seems a little psychotic that Bran knew what Dany was going to do and sat on the sidelines in order to become king. Maybe he's the real big bad? He's the one that pushed Sam to tell Jon about his true parentage which started Dany's plummet into madness and cost millions of innocent lives. 

[PARROTHEAD]

Love it, Hate it. Like the writing, bothered by the writing. Whatever it may be.

The past 6 weeks. Talking about it here and elsewhere, watercooler talk, with neighbors and friends.

I loved the ride. I loved 300 pages of clashing with and reading you guys.

Game of Thrones is... The friends we made along the way.