2019 Draft Discussion

[SSG]

13 hours ago, Leader said:

Then - thats where we shift gears from EDGE and snag a guy like ILB White (or whomever) - in other words - go BPA for the defense - as apparently, there's no not tier offensive guys we'd want then......unless "sacrilege" is considered and we get a lock down / sure thing OL guy. Again - those individual player valuations and shades of difference....I cant say. But I can say BPA  

Or wait - forgot - maybe we snag Hockenson at 12 - although with Graham.........

Hock is one of my favorite players in this draft but I wouldn't be excited about him at 12.  Saying that though, I'd rather it be him there than White at that pick.  He's every bit the caliber of prospect for his position and we're worse off at TE IMO.  Graham's tenure in GB is almost done and we don't have a NFL caliber prospect on the roster behind him.  At ILB we've got Martinez, who's every bit as good at ILB as Graham is at TE.  We've also got Burks who we spent a top 100 pick on last year.

[Mox]

1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Here is what trading up costs (approximately equal value) using the old JJ trade chart.
4th overall, #12 + #30
6th overall #12 + #44
15th overall #30 + #44
21st overall #30 + #75
27th overall #30 + #114
28th overall #44 + #75
38th overall #44 + #114
62nd overall #75 + #114
94th overall #114 + #118

I'm not a great fan of trading up. It's good for chasing specific players, and it's value depends on where the tiers are and the quality of the draft at the various positions. Of the above trades, the one I like the best is trading the 2nd (#44) and 3rd (#75) for 28th overall pick. Three picks in round one can improve you team in a hurry (for example, imagine what Burns + Hockenson + J.Simmons  could do for a team). I'd still probably settle for standing pat though, unless a specific player I want falls to a trade-up spot.
 

Is there anyone it'd make sense to deal 12+30 for at 4 if they fell that far?

I would also be all in on getting that Isabella guy for our offense. Think he would be a great mid round selection.

[Dubz41]

22 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Is there anyone it'd make sense to deal 12+30 for at 4 if they fell that far?

I would also be all in on getting that Isabella guy for our offense. Think he would be a great mid round selection.

If you feel Josh Allen, Quinnen Williams or Bosa are can't miss blue chips, one of them will be there after AZ takes the QB first.

[Leader]

Nagler:

Starting to hope Cody Ford falls to 30. Play him at RG this year, move him to RT next year when Bulaga's contract is up. Versatile lineman who has some nasty to him. Sign me up.

[Leader]

3 hours ago, MantyWrestler said:

My first thought was, “no way” but then I started thinking and... Kerry Collins might be the last, no? That is a long time ago. Wow, who else? 

I've no clue
There was a chart associated with the tweet - but I didnt copy/paste it.

[smetana34]

28 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Is there anyone it'd make sense to deal 12+30 for at 4 if they fell that far?

I would also be all in on getting that Isabella guy for our offense. Think he would be a great mid round selection.

Tough question. On one hand we need a player at every level of the defense and offense. But we've also seen that impact players can do for an entire unit. If we were to shore up OL, DL, EDGE, and safety with mid tier FA signings, I'd be fine packaging both 1sts for the last blue chip defensive player

[SSG]

14 hours ago, cannondale said:

I wouldn't say he killed it. He will need to work on strength big time (his supposed bright spot) and his arms and hands aren't growing anytime soon. I still have major reservations. Absolutely no way I take him at 12. With ILB's getting faster and faster, his small catch radius isn't gonna help him. It won't help him blocking at the next level either.

Josh Jackson had more bench reps

Jaire had only 2 fewer reps

Blocking is his strength, not bench press.  David Bakhtiari had multiple RBs out perform him on the bench during his rookie combine it doesn't mean they were both better than he was at blocking.  Heck, there were multiple WRs this last weekend that were closer to Bak's 28 reps than he was to either of those RBs in 2013 (31 and 36).  George Kittle is one of the best blockers in the league at his position and he did 18 reps.  

I'd say he killed it.  He had the 7th best 40 time among TEs in one of the fastest combines ever.  He had the 2nd best vertical, Broad Jump, 3 cone, 20 yard and 60 yard shuffle among his position group.  On top of that,  you could argue that he was the most impressive in the drills (certainly more impressive than Fant).  If not for Fant, we'd be talking about TJ having the best score in more than half the athletic events in what a lot of people are calling the strongest TE class ever.  

I don't think there was any issues with his length.  When looking at the 3 most productive TEs in the NFL last year he was in between them.  Kelce's length was the best with about an inch and a half more.  Kittle has less than an inch more length and Ertz has less than an inch less.  In regards to catch radius, his vertical was in the top 90 percentile and being able to control your body is a lot more important than the 1" one could make the argument that he's missing in his arm/ hand length.  

[Arthur Penske]

19 minutes ago, Leader said:

Nagler:

Starting to hope Cody Ford falls to 30. Play him at RG this year, move him to RT next year when Bulaga's contract is up. Versatile lineman who has some nasty to him. Sign me up.

I'm far from someone who can evaluate Olineman, but isn't he a bit unathletic to play RT for this blocking scheme?

[Leader]

Just now, Arthur Penske said:

I'm far from someone who can evaluate Olineman, but isn't he a bit unathletic to play RT for this blocking scheme?

I'm with you regards evaluating Olineman. I can comment on what I see - but never played there - not a learned experience for me - so I leave the factoids to others.

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, Ford is not their type, but they went away from type last year with Jaire.  However, Coach Flower has talked at length about the outside zone which probably means the premium on athletic OL has not changed.

At issue though would be whether the have changed from"wanting the biggest people who hit athletic thresholds" to "allowing for less athleticism from people who have truly impressive size" (I mean, Sherrod didn't really hit the benchmarks either.)

[rcon14]

4 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, Ford is not their type, but they went away from type last year with Jaire.  However, Coach Flower has talked at length about the outside zone which probably means the premium on athletic OL has not changed.

At issue though would be whether the have changed from"wanting the biggest people who hit athletic thresholds" to "allowing for less athleticism from people who have truly impressive size" (I mean, Sherrod didn't really hit the benchmarks either.)

Sherrod's 10-split was a touch slow and it's hard to know if that was an exception or maybe the 10-split isn't something they care about. What I'm wondering is if guys who post good 3C and SS tend to have good 10-splits and they didn't care that Sherrod missed the 10-split.

[deathstar]

44 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

I'm far from someone who can evaluate Olineman, but isn't he a bit unathletic to play RT for this blocking scheme?

This is a good question, because I think it shows some of the limitations in evaluation the combine presents. 

His feet on the backslide are awesome:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ledyardnfldraft/status/1072234592730574848?lang=en

On the football field his athleticism is what stands out:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jreidnfl/status/1084952548719636480

And lastly he’s just functionally, nasty strong:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ledyardnfldraft/status/1071519964773924864?lang=en

[rcon14]

4 minutes ago, deathstar said:

This is a good question, because I think it shows some of the limitations in evaluation the combine presents. 

His feet on the backslide are awesome:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ledyardnfldraft/status/1072234592730574848?lang=en

On the football field his athleticism is what stands out:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jreidnfl/status/1084952548719636480

And lastly he’s just functionally, nasty strong:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ledyardnfldraft/status/1071519964773924864?lang=en

I'm not saying they won't but man he's not even close to clearing what GB has traditionally looked for.
Treshold 10, 3C, SS: 1.8, 7.7, 4.75
Cody Ford: N/A, 8.27, 4.87

[deathstar]

3 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

I'm not saying they won't but man he's not even close to clearing what GB has traditionally looked for.
Treshold 10, 3C, SS: 1.8, 7.7, 4.75
Cody Ford: N/A, 8.27, 4.87

And I’m not saying they will. But I truly believe that in Fords case the combine does not illustrate how good of an athlete he is.

[rcon14]

Just now, deathstar said:

And I’m not saying they will. But I truly believe that in Fords case the combine does not illustrate how good of an athlete he is.

I kind of understand what you're saying. He appears to be a highly coordinated guy, especially for his size, but the combine does test pretty much every aspect of athleticism. 40 looks at speed, the jumps measure explosiveness, and the 3C and shuttle both test agility, burst, and COD skills. I guess I'm curious what you think the NFL isn't capturing currently in the combine regarding athleticism that you'd like to see added in.