2019 Draft Discussion

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, rcon14 said:

"His only drawback is strength" after you literally argued with me that Burns wouldn't be a good pick because he wasn't stout enough. Burns production > Polite, Burns pre-draft process > Polite, Burns athleticism at increased weight > Polite.

AND I REALLY LIKED POLITE. I was big on him at 12 before the pre-draft process, but you can't show up fat and answer questions like a child and then get "hurt" in the pre-draft process and not tumble down boards.

Fixed it for yah...

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I LOVED Polite on tape. He was my early favorite EDGE guy. The combine doesn't match what I saw.

I don't know why. But I do know that teams probably do know why. You can't really fake the tape though, so I think it's ludicrous to think he's more likely to go undrafted than on day 1/day 2 @Packerraymond

He's failed every single step since the end of college season. Rumors are his interviews at the Combine were awful, his interview with the media was one of the oddest things I've ever seen, he seems dumb as a box of rocks. Rumors are his weight was sloppy and that it wasn't good weight he put on, there's your motivation and work ethic questions. His athletic numbers flat out suck, no other way around it, least athletic EDGE to test this draft season. D2 guys are having better pro days. Then you have the fact that both workouts he's attempted he's pulled his hammy.

I hate that it's a young man's career we're talking about here as no one wants to see that go down the toilet, but Polite might have had the worst draft season in the decade + I've followed the draft.

You give me the option of Polite or Van Ginkel in round 5, give me AVG. I can't see a scenario where I'll want Polite. I think he'll have a very brief NFL career.

[MrBobGray]

A bit late on this, but as someone who's strongly against taking players who commit assault I spent more time than I cared to looking into Simmons, and I feel very comfortable with him.  By all accounts he was a well-loved boy scout of a guy up to that incident and after the incident.  He apologized and took responsibility for the incident the next day on his Instagram, and has never shied away from it.  If he's asked, he'll talk about it and admit it was a huge error in judgement.  Every coach he's had has gone to bat for him in a big way.  He was an 18 year old kid whose sister was in a fight with a woman their family had had a consistently antagonistic relationship with.  He initially intervened to separate them, then returned when they kept fighting.

Does this excuse what he did?  Hell no.  Not in the slightest.  But there's a big difference in a young kid full of adrenaline going way overboard in a fight that he didn't start, and sucker-punching a girl because you didn't like what she said.  Mixon only apologized two years later after video of the incident had come out (admittedly, this may be because the university was striving to cover it up as much as possible).  These are just straight up not the same thing.

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

He's failed every single step since the end of college season. Rumors are his interviews at the Combine were awful, his interview with the media was one of the oddest things I've ever seen, he seems dumb as a box of rocks. Rumors are his weight was sloppy and that it wasn't good weight he put on, there's your motivation and work ethic questions. His athletic numbers flat out suck, no other way around it, least athletic EDGE to test this draft season. D2 guys are having better pro days. Then you have the fact that both workouts he's attempted he's pulled his hammy.

I hate that it's a young man's career we're talking about here as no one wants to see that go down the toilet, but Polite might have had the worst draft season in the decade + I've followed the draft.

You give me the option of Polite or Van Ginkel in round 5, give me AVG. I can't see a scenario where I'll want Polite. I think he'll have a very brief NFL career.

Basically the only way I'd want Polite is if I do a few things.

1) Take an MRI of his hamstring
2) Conduct a very thorough interview to get to the root cause of his problems in the pre-draft process
3) If he's healthy, run him through the combine drills again, if he gets hurt again, he's off the board
4) Tell him to dump his advisement/training team if he wants to be drafted by us

And then, MAYBE, I'd be okay drafting him. I'm so disappointed because I really like Polite's tape but he's ruined the whole thing with a horrendous pre-draft process. This is like a four month interview. Do it well and you were getting millions guaranteed. Instead he got fat.

[rcon14]

Just now, MrBobGray said:

A bit late on this, but as someone who's strongly against taking players who commit assault I spent more time than I cared to looking into Simmons, and I feel very comfortable with him.  By all accounts he was a well-loved boy scout of a guy up to that incident and after the incident.  He apologized and took responsibility for the incident the next day on his Instagram, and has never shied away from it.  If he's asked, he'll talk about it and admit it was a huge error in judgement.  Every coach he's had has gone to bat for him in a big way.  He was an 18 year old kid whose sister was in a fight with a woman their family had had a consistently antagonistic relationship with.  He initially intervened to separate them, then returned when they kept fighting.

Does this excuse what he did?  Hell no.  Not in the slightest.  But there's a big difference in a young kid full of adrenaline going way overboard in a fight that he didn't start, and sucker-punching a girl because you didn't like what she said.  Mixon only apologized two years later after video of the incident had come out (admittedly, this may be because the university was striving to cover it up as much as possible).  These are just straight up not the same thing.

Yeah the fact that he was intervening in a fight where the girl was assaulting his sister definitely makes it different than your standard case.

[PossibleCabbage]

I guess the question is: We know Jachai Polite with 20 extra pounds of bad weight is not a good athlete.  But what if he added 20 lbs of good weight?

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I guess the question is: We know Jachai Polite with 20 extra pounds of bad weight is not a good athlete.  But what if he added 20 lbs of good weight?

A lot easier to add bad weight versus good weight. He's going to have to "want" it and given his draft season so far, there's a legit question of whether he "wants" it. 

[rcon14]

4 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I guess the question is: We know Jachai Polite with 20 extra pounds of bad weight is not a good athlete.  But what if he added 20 lbs of good weight?

Part of this is signals. He SHOULD have put on good weight. He didn't. In literally the most important few months of his life, he didn't not only do the expectation, but he did the exact worst thing possible. That is a massive red flag. There is zero excuse to mess any of this up.

[JaireAlex]

25 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I LOVED Polite on tape. He was my early favorite EDGE guy. The combine doesn't match what I saw.

I don't know why. But I do know that teams probably do know why. You can't really fake the tape though, so I think it's ludicrous to think he's more likely to go undrafted than on day 1/day 2 @Packerraymond

Yeah.

When I read the reports and then I actually listen to Polite himself, it's two totally different narratives.

It just screams smokescreen. Some teams may not like him. He's a 3-4 olb but has amazing get off  from the 3 point. Some will fall for the "reports." That injury is going to dock him. He just came in totally unprepared because he had no idea what the combine was really about. Just a mistake imo, not laziness. He trained for it. I can only laugh at his comments in his naivitee. Moreover, he "gets" what he did "wrong." He took the criticism personally and it's just really humorous is all. I thought he did fine answering questions at his proday. Came off un"prepped" and just genuine. Can't see anything wrong with him.

because of the terrible reports, I didn't even look at him til now. Someone will get a steal.

When "reports" are he faked a hamstring injury, that's just  BS -- a clear false report. He said he had it before the combine and tried to fight through it. No reason not to believe him because his tape does not match those numbers at all. He's so natural and quick and - key for Pettine -- shows some versatility. He can play a number of spots which Pettine said he likes.

[Packerraymond]

45 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Yeah.

When I read the reports and then I actually listen to Polite himself, it's two totally different narratives.

It just screams smokescreen. Some teams may not like him. He's a 3-4 olb but has amazing get off  from the 3 point. Some will fall for the "reports." That injury is going to dock him. He just came in totally unprepared because he had no idea what the combine was really about. Just a mistake imo, not laziness. He trained for it. I can only laugh at his comments in his naivitee. Moreover, he "gets" what he did "wrong." He took the criticism personally and it's just really humorous is all. I thought he did fine answering questions at his proday. Came off un"prepped" and just genuine. Can't see anything wrong with him.

because of the terrible reports, I didn't even look at him til now. Someone will get a steal.

When "reports" are he faked a hamstring injury, that's just  BS -- a clear false report. He said he had it before the combine and tried to fight through it. No reason not to believe him because his tape does not match those numbers at all. He's so natural and quick and - key for Pettine -- shows some versatility. He can play a number of spots which Pettine said he likes.

I got it, you're Polite's dad and Brian Burns must've beat him up as a kid.

[Dubz41]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I got it, you're Polite's dad and Brian Burns must've beat him up as a kid.

Thanks, that put a topper on an incredible, bizarre line of reasoning. 

[smetana34]

Looking at Brooks mock on NFLN, he has us talking Oliver at 12, and AJ Brown at 30. Simmons goes at 31. Maybe someone who is smarter than me can break it down, but say the draft unfolded like that. Would taking Simmons at 30 instead with Clark and Oliver already in tow be a little redundant? Pettine loves interior pressure, and I can't help but think those three guys could form a nasty trio together. Basically what im asking is: are those three the same players, or could they coexist? I don't really know the differences between NT, 3T, 5T, etc

[PossibleCabbage]

1 minute ago, smetana34 said:

Would taking Simmons at 30 instead with Clark and Oliver already in tow be a little redundant?

I don't think so, personally.  I'm honestly not convinced that Oliver doesn't pull a Bruschi and move from defensive tackle to linebacker.  He's not a guy you want playing super close to the center on the line (he lined up at nose for Houston), so playing him in the B-Gap, or the C-Gap, or just outside better.

Reason you would pass on Simmons in the first round is basically- he's not gonna help you this year.  Combine that with "success rate on the red shirt guys is low" and it's a risky pick, particularly for a team that can't really afford to wait.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

Thanks, that put a topper on an incredible, bizarre line of reasoning. 

You mean vehemently hating Burns but seemingly pounding the table for a smaller, slower, less explosive, dumber, lazier, less productive version of Burns confuses you too?

[packfanfb]

8 minutes ago, smetana34 said:

Looking at Brooks mock on NFLN, he has us talking Oliver at 12, and AJ Brown at 30. Simmons goes at 31. Maybe someone who is smarter than me can break it down, but say the draft unfolded like that. Would taking Simmons at 30 instead with Clark and Oliver already in tow be a little redundant? Pettine loves interior pressure, and I can't help but think those three guys could form a nasty trio together. Basically what im asking is: are those three the same players, or could they coexist? I don't really know the differences between NT, 3T, 5T, etc

Simmons would be a luxury at that point, and personally I'd go with Brown at 30. Add value to the offense after landing Oliver at 12.