757-NINER Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Ftn49 said: Except they also called him an elite edge defender, as he graded out as the second best run defender in the league. Yes, they said he doesn't get home enough because he doesn't have the flexibility to really bend the edge. The also mentioned that his pressures and sacks have gone up every year that he has been in the league. I think people get too caught up in that he was the first overall pick instead of just acknowledging that he is a damn good player. Worth the first overall? No, not in hindsight as was mentioned before, but we wouldn't have to spend a draft pick to get him assuming he becomes a free agent (which I doubt he will). However on the off chance that he does personally I would much rather spend our cap space on him than any of the malcontented WRs around the league. Meh, I'm not gonna pay him the kind of money he's gonna be asking for so he can be a elite run defender. This is a passing league. Getting to the QB is what this defense lacks, not run defenders. I can find run defenders all day long. He needs to hunt the QB and do it at a elite level and that's just not him. I could care less where he was drafted. I go by the tape, not draft position. He has his moments, but he IS NOT in the same class of guys like Mack and Miller. But he will expect to get paid like it and that's a real problem for me. Hell, he's not even Vic Beasley or TJ Watt at this point as far as rushing the passer. If I thought it was as simple as him changing schemes and playing as a DE in a four man front I'd be more incline to say ok. But he doesn't dominate OTs the way I feel a guy of his stature and athleticism should. And I don't think a scheme switch would change that. But I will say this...we had joint TC practices with the Texans this past year so our staff and the brass got a up close look at Clowney. So if he does hit the market and they go after him hard, then they must have been impressed with what they saw and presumably like his fit in this scheme. Only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justone2 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: Meh, I'm not gonna pay him the kind of money he's gonna be asking for so he can be a elite run defender. This is a passing league. Getting to the QB is what this defense lacks, not run defenders. I can find run defenders all day long. He needs to hunt the QB and do it at a elite level and that's just not him. I could care less where he was drafted. I go by the tape, not draft position. He has his moments, but he IS NOT in the same class of guys like Mack and Miller. But he will expect to get paid like it and that's a real problem for me. Hell, he's not even Vic Beasley or TJ Watt at this point as far as rushing the passer. If I thought it was as simple as him changing schemes and playing as a DE in a four man front I'd be more incline to say ok. But he doesn't dominate OTs the way I feel a guy of his stature and athleticism should. And I don't think a scheme switch would change that. But I will say this...we had joint TC practices with the Texans this past year so our staff and the brass got a up close look at Clowney. So if he does hit the market and they go after him hard, then they must have been impressed with what they saw and presumably like his fit in this scheme. Only time will tell... Clowney ain't just a elite edge defender. Is he on the same level as Mack and Miller as a pass rusher no but they aren't on his level against the run either. Besides that Clowney has grown every year since he came into the league which means he works hard to get better which makes me way more comfortable giving him a big contract then a guy like Beasley who only had one year where he outproduced Clowney as a pass rusher. Clowney is a guy you can plug in at Leo and don't have to worry about that position for the rest of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 He has been used in the wrong scheme....I'd give him a chance in ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Justone2 said: Clowney ain't just a elite edge defender. Is he on the same level as Mack and Miller as a pass rusher no but they aren't on his level against the run either. Besides that Clowney has grown every year since he came into the league which means he works hard to get better which makes me way more comfortable giving him a big contract then a guy like Beasley who only had one year where he outproduced Clowney as a pass rusher. Clowney is a guy you can plug in at Leo and don't have to worry about that position for the rest of his contract. Clowney has definitely never been labeled a hard worker. I think most Texans fan would readily admit that he has gotten this far with his God-given talent. But his work ethic leaves much to be desired at this point. Those are the wrong kind of players you want to throw huge amounts of money at. But it's a moot point because he's gonna get tagged. No way they let him just walk w/o them getting anything in return and no heir apparent in-house, waiting in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justone2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 14 hours ago, 757-NINER said: Clowney has definitely never been labeled a hard worker. I think most Texans fan would readily admit that he has gotten this far with his God-given talent. But his work ethic leaves much to be desired at this point. Those are the wrong kind of players you want to throw huge amounts of money at. But it's a moot point because he's gonna get tagged. No way they let him just walk w/o them getting anything in return and no heir apparent in-house, waiting in the wings. When you look at Clowney when he came out and now you see a massive difference in the pass rushing part of his game. Why people call him lazy or that he has gotten this far because of his athleticism is because he was such a hyped prospect that ticked all the athletic boxes but in terms of actual skill he was pretty raw which is why you saw him "struggle" early in his career. He has become better each year both statiscally and just how he beats guys. But yeah he probably will get tagged and rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Clowney is a very good player, and would very likely be a big difference maker on this team as LEO. Will he be worth the asking price? That's another matter.. but I think that he would be far from a flop. Some players just don't amount to their contracts, but that doesn't mean they won't be good additions. Just means they are pricey good additions. SF can pay BIG to who is already a very good LEO, and hope that he shows even more promise while next to Buck... or SF can pay less but still big money and the top draft resource.. to a top 5 rookie.. and hope that he becomes even half/most/all/more of what Clowney is or can still be. The safe but larger money would be to the already established player versus the unproven college kid. I'm fine with whatever they do; it's not like I can do a damn thing about it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftn49 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, oldman9er said: Clowney is a very good player, and would very likely be a big difference maker on this team as LEO. Will he be worth the asking price? That's another matter.. but I think that he would be far from a flop. Some players just don't amount to their contracts, but that doesn't mean they won't be good additions. Just means they are pricey good additions. SF can pay BIG to who is already a very good LEO, and hope that he shows even more promise while next to Buck... or SF can pay less but still big money and the top draft resource.. to a top 5 rookie.. and hope that he becomes even half/most/all/more of what Clowney is or can still be. The safe but larger money would be to the already established player versus the unproven college kid. I'm fine with whatever they do; it's not like I can do a damn thing about it anyway. Honestly, I want both, Clowney and a pass rusher at 2... I guess it wasn't an either/or for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 45 minutes ago, Ftn49 said: Honestly, I want both, Clowney and a pass rusher at 2... I guess it wasn't an either/or for me. Nor for me. I'm a proponent of double dipping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'm cool with the double-dip of LEO, but adding a vet like Clowney would ease me off of the top 2 overall urgency in the draft. Still might do it, if I like the value and prospect.. but I think there will be good development options on day 2 as well. Adding no vet LEO in FA makes drafting one in the top of rd 1 a near must, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, oldman9er said: I'm cool with the double-dip of LEO, but adding a vet like Clowney would ease me off of the top 2 overall urgency in the draft. Still might do it, if I like the value and prospect.. but I think there will be good development options on day 2 as well. Adding no vet LEO in FA makes drafting one in the top of rd 1 a near must, imo. I think it at least makes me feel better about trading out of the top 5 and thus likely losing out on Quinnen, Allen and possibly Ferrell. With Clowney, I'd honestly prefer a tradeback and grabbing non-DT BPA and then trading back into the first to grab another edge. My biggest concern with Clowney is injuries. Dude has absolutely showed out as a pass-rusher thus far in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 8:08 AM, 757-NINER said: Clowney has definitely never been labeled a hard worker. I think most Texans fan would readily admit that he has gotten this far with his God-given talent. But his work ethic leaves much to be desired at this point. Those are the wrong kind of players you want to throw huge amounts of money at. But it's a moot point because he's gonna get tagged. No way they let him just walk w/o them getting anything in return and no heir apparent in-house, waiting in the wings. Yeah, where did this rhetoric come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftn49 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Yeah, where did this rhetoric come from? There was a profootballtalk article where an anonymous coach/office guy was quoted. It really doesn't make a difference to me even if it is true. My mind keeps going to an old article by Paul Zimmerman- a little side note- one of the best sports writers I've ever come across if you don't know him, unfortunately he passed but had some fantastic 9er articles from the glory days and before. Anyway he was a big fan of the try hard guys that every one loves to love and he was interviewing a coach one time and asked him about why weren't there more of the supremely motivated players that are all football all the time and the quote was something along the lines was if you have a team full of those guys they will try hard all the way watching the other guy run into the end zone. Lol, it was much more elegant when Dr Z wrote it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Yeah, where did this rhetoric come from? He doesn't play with a good motor. This has been the knock since college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 This is a video from John McClain who is a Houston beat writer. Go to 14:05 mark of the video where he talks about Clowney's work ethic... https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/John-McClain-s-Texans-chat-On-worker-bee-13627928.php The thing is, there are literally hundreds of examples of supremely talented guys who were also hard workers and spent most of their time trying to be the best they absolutely could. And then there are thousands of examples of supremely talented guys doing the minimum required, because they could get away with it. It is what it is. My issue with Clowney isn't necessarily that he doesn't possess the greatest work ethic. My issue is that he isn't good enough IMHO, to make it a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwalter_81 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Posted this in general thread: Was just thinking with how the Cowboys have been slow playing rewarding Lawrence with the long term deal he is seeking. DeMarcus Lawrence needs shoulder surgery on his labrum that will have him out 3-4 months. If the Cowboys elect to place the franchise tag on him again, he can elect to undergo surgery later in the offseason to intentionally sit out the entire season, still getting the $20 million and enter as an UFA next offseason. Cowboys could be setting themselves up for a massive finesse job if they stingy with the long term deal. How crazy would this be?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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