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FinneasGage

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1 minute ago, champ11 said:

It just comes down to how much of a bump you want to give Kyrie for his 1v1 scoring in the playoffs I guess. Because if you're looking at top 10 players for a season it's hard to include Kyrie when he is bringing one skill to the table...But I fully hear your point. And I will give the man credit for upping his assists this year. But if you are a top ten player and it's all based on your offensive abilities...and your team isn't a good offensive team? That's a tough argument to make IMO. 

But if you're just talking about a CP3 v Kyrie comparison that's fine, I won't argue with you saying that it's close. 

Well, the Lakers aren't a good offensive team this year and that is what LeBron is pretty much all about at this point of his career, so do we knock him for that as well? 

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7 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Well, the Lakers aren't a good offensive team this year and that is what LeBron is pretty much all about at this point of his career, so do we knock him for that as well? 

Beyond the other context involved in this comparison - the Lakers have been the 9th most efficient offense since Rondo has been out of the lineup. And LeBron obviously brings playmaking and rebounding that Kyrie doesn't bring, as well as better scoring statistics. 

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7 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Beyond the other context involved in this comparison - the Lakers have been the 9th most efficient offense since Rondo has been out of the lineup. And LeBron obviously brings playmaking and rebounding that Kyrie doesn't bring, as well as better scoring statistics. 

Don't try to get all technical on me!!! Celtics have the 16th ranked offense and the Lakers are 18th offensively. And the Celtics were in the 20s just early last week I believe. So they are quickly improving and may even get to the top 10 range or close to it by season's end. But I'll wait until postseason to make my real case for Kyrie ;).

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12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Don't try to get all technical on me!!! Celtics have the 16th ranked offense and the Lakers are 18th offensively. And the Celtics were in the 20s just early last week I believe. So they are quickly improving and may even get to the top 10 range or close to it by season's end. But I'll wait until postseason to make my real case for Kyrie ;).

The LeBron v Irving comparison doesn't really make sense in what I was saying because Bron brings so much more to the table than Kyrie outside of scoring.

The Celtics finished 18th in offensive rating last year, so we'll see. 

But my whole point is including a guy in the top ten players for a season based on playoff individual scoring is a little absurd, but do what you want lol.

If you're a top ten NBA player based on your offensive abilities like Harden, Westbrook, or Jokic (no defense, all offense guys like Irving)...I'd expect your team to be a good offensive team. Last year the Rockets were 1, OKC was 7, Nuggets were 6. Boston was 18. 

 

IF Kyrie orchestrates a top 10ish offense by the end of the year then this point will be moot. Let's see it

Edited by champ11
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2 minutes ago, champ11 said:

 

The LeBron v Irving comparison doesn't really make sense in what I was saying because Bron brings so much more to the table than Kyrie outside of scoring.

The Celtics finished 18th in offensive rating last year, so we'll see. 

But my whole point is including a guy in the top ten players for a season based on playoff individual scoring is a little absurd, but do what you want lol.

If you're a top ten NBA player based on your offensive abilities like Harden, Westbrook, or Jokic (no defense, all offense guys like Irving)...I'd expect your team to be a good offensive team. Last year the Rockets were 1, OKC was 7, Nuggets were 6. Boston was 18. 

 

IF Kyrie orchestrates a top 10ish offense by the end of the year then this point will be moot. Let's see it

First off, I never said Kyrie was a top 10 player or not. The only argument about Kyrie I got into was if it is close between him and CP3 or not.

But Kyrie is once again super efficient, rebounding well for his position and averaging a career high in assists. Oh yeah, his defense (largely due to defenders around him) hasn't been bad either. He will never be a great defender but he's not a total liability or anything. And he is a flat out closer that will win games by himself in the playoffs. So no, the case for Kyrie being on the level of CP3 isn't just off his playoff scoring, but that playoff scoring and takeover ability damn sure can't be denied either. 

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In regards to Kyrie, if you're starting a franchise, how long does it take for him to get selected? I honestly feel there's upwards of 20 players you take before Kyrie. Sure, Kyrie is someone you want on your roster for the iso ability in the playoffs but what else does he bring that says "THAT'S the guy I want leading my team."

Hint: He's not someone you want leading your team. He'll get his but he needs the right team around him otherwise it's nothing but empty stats. 

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Just empty stats eh? He's put up EFFICIENT numbers on championship and championship caliber teams. Would he need solid talent around him? Sure, but he wouldn't need unbelievable talent around him to win or shine. You could take this guy or that guy to start a franchise, but I know who I want with the rock in money time in big moments. 

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14 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

In regards to Kyrie, if you're starting a franchise, how long does it take for him to get selected? I honestly feel there's upwards of 20 players you take before Kyrie. Sure, Kyrie is someone you want on your roster for the iso ability in the playoffs but what else does he bring that says "THAT'S the guy I want leading my team."

Hint: He's not someone you want leading your team. He'll get his but he needs the right team around him otherwise it's nothing but empty stats. 

I’m taking (in team alphabetical order):

Tatum

Dončić

Griffin

Jokic

Curry

Durant

Klay

Green (yes, I like Green a lot)

Harden

Paul

Oladipo

LeBron

Conley

Jackson Jr.

Antetokounmpo

Towns

Davis

Holiday

Westbrick

George

Booker

Embiid

Simmons

Butler

Lillard

Fox

Leonard

Lowry

Mitchell

Gobert

Beal

Edited by Tyronnosaurus
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1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Hint: He's not someone you want leading your team. He'll get his but he needs the right team around him otherwise it's nothing but empty stats. 

literally the same with every player

giannis for example has won exactly zero playoff series

you don't win in the playoffs because you have a poorly constructed roster (unless you have Lebron)

Edited by 11sanchez11
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1 hour ago, 11sanchez11 said:

literally the same with every player

giannis for example has won exactly zero playoff series

you don't win in the playoffs because you have a poorly constructed roster (unless you have Lebron)

I'm saying he's not going to be the sole reason why you do or don't make the playoffs. He's not going to make you a contender or take that necessary next step towards becoming one. He's more of a Carmelo or Love than a LeBron or Durant. 

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