State of our team

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Marino had more talent than Carr but Marino did more with the talent he had.  Sorry but Marino was a pro bowler his first 5 years and first team all pro 3 of those years.  Is Carr a better QB with better talent? Of Course but Carr is dependent on having talent around him to play good.  Mack was not.  Marino was not.  They both would have been better but their talent levels allowed them to shine based upon their own abilities.  Carr does not and makes mistakes because he panics.  He also panics when there is no reason to panic.  He has horrible line play and combined with the injuries he is shell shocked and broken.  I do not know if he can be fixed.  Fitz will make mistakes also but will make good plays also.  His mistakes come from him taking chances.  Carr makes mistakes from trying not to take chances.  If we traded Carr for Fitz we would probably have 2 first round picks still and have Mack on D.  We would need to draft another QB with one of the picks.  We would be around .500 or better and not letting a 3rd string QB destroy our defense.

 

Right now we have 2 firsts for Mack (one of wich needs to be spent on a DE to replace just like we would have done for QB), what appears to be a broken QB that the team is not rallying around (we may need to spend another first on his replacement), and are a team that is spiraling into one of the worst teams in NFL history.  Is this all on Carr? No.  Much of it is on Gruden's shoulders but this team would at least of had a QB that was willing to take a shot for them and a HOF DE that probably would have been the difference in 3 of the games.  We would have had hope.

You're saying that this team would be 4 and 4 with Mack and Fitz and 1 and 7 with Carr and no Mack.  Fitz a career backup cast off who was benched a few weeks ago for Winston who may possess the intellect of a 7 year old?  That has to be the funniest thing I have read in awhile.

[Frankie2Gunz]

Just now, drfrey13 said:

I hope I am wrong but we have coach that has completely destroyed our team and appears to not be capable of rebuilding it.  I want us to grab Bradford now and see if he is worse than Carr to gauge where the issue is.

That has to be the most insane thing I have read since your last post.  Bradford is absolute garbage.  hahaha I hope you're kidding.  

Most Raider fans crack me up.  Literally most have zero clue of what reality is.  Bradford SMH

[Silver&Black88]

I would puke seeing Bradford start over Carr.

[Frankie2Gunz]

19 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I would puke seeing Bradford start over Carr.

Bradford makes Carr look like Mike Vick lol. Can you imagine the disaster of Bradford started behind our sive of an Oline? 

[SilverNBlackFan]

46 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I would puke seeing Bradford start over Carr.

Even I would throw up. Bradford needs to retire 

[drfrey13]

I was not saying we need Bradford back there to win.  We have fans saying it is Carr and fans saying it is the players around him.  I am saying why not sign the guy on the cheap and see what he can do.  That means letting him clear waivers.  We are tanking anyways so why not.  Anyone who is scared to give someone else a chance is crazy.  This team just got smoked by one of the worst teams in the league starting a 3rd stringer making his debut.  Not only did he not lose the game for his team but his debut puts him in the Tarkenton and Kelly class.  We could nod not even beat the Colts coming off of a bye week.

Frankie you need to stop referring to Fitz as a career backup cast off.  Watch his games from this year before you mention him again.  the guy has played 3.75 games and has a 13/5 TD/INT ratio.  Carr has played 7.75 games and has a 10/8 ratio and has only passed for 650 more yards than Fitz.  Fitz played 1 quarter last week and still had better numbers than Carr this week.  The Bucs were down 18 at the start of the 4th when Fitz got in the game and he brought them back to tie the game in one quarter.  In our 7 loses we have scored a total of 13 points in the 4th quarter.  Fitz's Rating #1 and #4 in Total QBR.  Carr is ranked 17th and 25th.  Now you can argue some of it is the team but I have watched the games and Fitz would have played better than Carr on our current team.  Bucs players want to play for him.  This week will be a tough match-up but we already know that we could only put up 3 points on a 49er D that is pretty bad.

[BayRaider]

Yeah Bradford would make me cringe. He would be way worse than Carr that’s for sure. Even when the Cardinals gave him 18M for one season I was like wtf are they doing?? Bradford is a financial expert though.. been robbin teams of Franchise QB money and 1st Round Picks since 2010. No one has ever done it better. 

I’m all down for signing Fitz next year as a stop gap if we move on from Carr though. Really think Gruden can turn Fitz into Gannon (keyword “can”, not holding my breath). Fitz is not afraid to go deep and can have some massive massive games. One year prove it deal for around 15M and then draft a QB in 2020. 

[G]

20 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

 

I haven't watched enough college football this year to give an accurate assessment on the WR class. 

You will like the size of some of these guys who might come out more than their stats/highlights. Can't believe you think Hoss was a bust for us. We had garbage before him and garbage after until Gannon. Hoss made us competitive compared to Jay overthrow Shredder, Todd where's my drugs MoronOvich, Jeff Boi George let alone all the scrubs who've passed through before Carr. Brooks, Collins, Tui, etc...I can't believe how so many Raider fans have turned on Carr not remembering how bad our QB's have been for DECADES!!! Carr is shell shocked and an emotional guy. His 'beliefs' are not in your face Tebow style but I can see why some might be turned off by that. Personally I'd rather have to rebuild Carr's confidence in Vegas instead of giving a young kid millions in cash who might be good or not and might have off field issues in Sin City.

Damn I did it again. Ranting anytime I think about this team and our direction. UGH!!!

[big_palooka]

@Frankie2Gunz Watch Hakeem Butler, Iowa St. If he times well, he's the type WR you will love. He's in my top 3 WR in this class that are draft eligible 

[Frankie2Gunz]

23 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

@Frankie2Gunz Watch Hakeem Butler, Iowa St. If he times well, he's the type WR you will love. He's in my top 3 WR in this class that are draft eligible 

Thanks @big_palooka I'll check him out.  What do you think of AJ Brown?  He's 6'1 but I've seen him mocked to the Raiders with our Bears pick.  Is he legit?

[MacReady]

The Raiders before Gruden were stuck in a make the playoffs and lose spot.  They didn't have talent enough to effectively challenge for a Super Bowl, and it was a lack of talent that wasn't going to be filled in three years. 

Fast forward three years, paying Mack QB money at 30 years old and that's a blemish rather than a strong point.  Mack REALLY hasn't been all that incredible.  He flashed against the Cardinals and Kizer when Rodgers was out, and has otherwise been very quiet.  Not saying he's not good.  He's good, but he's the type of good that could have gotten the Raiders out of good draft position before age slowly caught up to him.  Trading him gave Gruden a very healthy cap and two first round picks.  It also turned his own pick from a 7th-11th overall pick into likely the first or at worst third overall pick.  Immediately, assuming this first overall pick is a hit (and you have to assume that), you have gotten 7 years younger at your premier defender position (Bosa/Oliver) and you have given yourself the ability to afford other pieces. 

This year is wasted, yes, but Mack would not have elevated this team to a playoff team, he would have just kept you out of the top 5 in a draft pick. 

The Raiders are also in a very strong position for next year.  They don't have THE future at QB, but Carr is very capable of being a very good test for the team.  If the team performs well offensively with an okay QB, it's a great way of deciding when to get the next QB.  You really can't judge a team with a Derek Anderson type QB, so it's tough to tell whether or not you've got a team good enough to put a QB into. 

I think the 2019 season will be a great year for the Raiders to get the team ready for a franchise QB. 

Say the Raiders add in this coming draft their premier defender (Oliver/Bosa), then another tackle with the second first round pick.  Then the BPA at RB/defense. 

You've just added talent enough to compete with Carr, to see if Carr has what it takes, and also see if the rest of the offense is good enough to put a QB into. 

Next year will also test whether or not Kolton Miller is going to be a left tackle, right tackle or get demoted to guard. 

In the 2020 draft, the Raiders are either ready to put finishing touches on a run with Carr or get their franchise QB. 

The Raiders are in a better situation going forward than any team has ever been in without a confirmed franchise QB. 

[BayRaider]

Great post Outpost. And yes, Mack would of kept aging and causing us to get picks in the teens, making our rebuild harder. Don’t get me wrong, love Mack, but it was a rare case where keeping him hurts us rather than helps us. Would you rather watch Mack get 13-15 sacks a year while we win 6-8 games the next 3-5 years or would you rather get a couple Top 5 picks, have tons of cap space to shape the roster how you want, and get more ammo cause you traded Mack. I’d rather have two 2-14 seasons, an 8-8, and then some championships rather than 5-6 years of 6-9 win football. 

[Dessie]

25 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Great post Outpost. And yes, Mack would of kept aging and causing us to get picks in the teens, making our rebuild harder. Don’t get me wrong, love Mack, but it was a rare case where keeping him hurts us rather than helps us. Would you rather watch Mack get 13-15 sacks a year while we win 6-8 games the next 3-5 years or would you rather get a couple Top 5 picks, have tons of cap space to shape the roster how you want, and get more ammo cause you traded Mack. I’d rather have two 2-14 seasons, an 8-8, and then some championships rather than 5-6 years of 6-9 win football. 

Strange how your position has changed. During Macks holdout you said he was a once in a lifetime player and a top 3 defensive player that you wouldn’t trade for 2 1sts and a 3rd.

Seems as though the worse we get the more excuses are being made for Gruden. 

[BayRaider]

12 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Strange how your position has changed. During Macks holdout you said he was a once in a lifetime player and a top 3 defensive player that you wouldn’t trade for 2 1sts and a 3rd.

Seems as though the worse we get the more excuses are being made for Gruden. 

If I did say that, I was probably also talking with emotion as well since i do love Mack. I wanted to pay him instead of Carr and everyone kept saying a QB is more important. QB is not more important when hes no where close to the level of player Mack is. They are not even on the same universe. I’ve been preaching a full rebuild for a while and of course no one wants to lose a talent like him. In retrospect I think we will look back on it years from now and see it was the correct move. We were a terrible terrible roster going into the season even with Mack. We were beyond a “reload” which has become obviously apparent. 

It also has absolutely nothing to do with Gruden. We needed a rebuild regardless of coach. I’ve even said multiple times I do not know if Gruden is that guy. He’s never proven to be able to build a roster before. I hope he is that guy and will give him a chance. What I have said is we need a rebuild. The Carr and Mack lovers will never accept how pitiful our roster was and how pitiful a drafter McKenzie is. Reloading was not the correct path here, we were way beyond that. 

[Dessie]

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

If I did say that, I was probably also talking with emotion as well since i do love Mack. I wanted to pay him instead of Carr and everyone kept saying a QB is more important. QB is not more important when hes no where close to the level of player Mack is. They are not even on the same universe. I’ve been preaching a full rebuild for a while and of course no one wants to lose a talent like him. In retrospect I think we will look back on it years from now and see it was the correct move. We were a terrible terrible roster going into the season even with Mack. We were beyond a “reload” which has become obviously apparent. 

It also has absolutely nothing to do with Gruden. We needed a rebuild regardless of coach. I’ve even said multiple times I do not know if Gruden is that guy. He’s never proven to be able to build a roster before. I hope he is that guy and will give him a chance. What I have said is we need a rebuild. The Carr and Mack lovers will never accept how pitiful our roster was and how pitiful a drafter McKenzie is. Reloading was not the correct path here, we were way beyond that. 

You had us being a playoff team this year and Mack was untradeable, now it’s we had a terrible roster and we needed a rebuild. I wonder how many times you are going to keep flip flopping your stance.

With every loss Gruden has with his own roster it seems as though it makes last years roster even worse. Del Rio must have been a miracle worker to get 6 wins.