big_palooka Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Winning cures everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Gannon12 said: You didn’t watch Carr cry and get a lift from the guy that sacked him? You didn't watch the offensive line give him zero chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 5 hours ago, big_palooka said: Winning cures everything It would if we could but Gruden is making sure we don't do much of that this year. Whether intended or not. I don't think he planned on tanking but we kind of are these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: Winning seasons cures everything Fify a win here and there ain’t gonna cut it no more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Exactly. We may go 2-14 this year, 4-12 next year, but if we go 8-8 the following year in 2020, and maybe a pair of 11 win seasons and a SB after that, all these Gruden skeptics will be praising him (which would be hilarious as they just couldn't see the bigger picture). No saying Gruden can't fail, he definitely can, but he's been getting way to much flak for the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Exactly. We may go 2-14 this year, 4-12 next year, but if we go 8-8 the following year in 2020, and maybe a pair of 11 win seasons and a SB after that, all these Gruden skeptics will be praising him (which would be hilarious as they just couldn't see the bigger picture). No saying Gruden can't fail, he definitely can, but he's been getting way to much flak for the rebuild. Because a full rebuild wasn't needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Silver&Black88 said: Because a full rebuild wasn't needed It was, you had Carr (who isn't even good anyways), Mack, Cooper (also massively overrated) all about to be on their big deals, and we missed on three drafts in a row. Any team without a super elite QB who whiffs on three drafts in a row (completely ridiculous) is going into rebuild mode. Unless you're the Patriots, the key to winning a championship for the past decade plus has been hit on four drafts in a row, with your QB being on that rookie contract. Sure, losing Mack does suck. Think he is the Lawrence Taylor of our generation. But I don't think any team with Mack is ever getting only 5 wins and we need a couple Top 5 Picks right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: It was, you had Carr (who isn't even good anyways), Mack, Cooper (also massively overrated) all about to be on their big deals, and we missed on three drafts in a row. Any team without a super elite QB who whiffs on three drafts in a row (completely ridiculous) is going into rebuild mode. Unless you're the Patriots, the key to winning a championship for the past decade plus has been hit on four drafts in a row, with your QB being on that rookie contract. Sure, losing Mack does suck. Think he is the Lawrence Taylor of our generation. But I don't think any team with Mack is ever getting only 5 wins and we need a couple Top 5 Picks right now. You're a Gruden apologist, so it is what it is..... @Silver&Black88 is right. Team had the QB, pass rusher and WR with a Solid Oline. They needed help on the Dline (used 3 draft picks there). This defense would look completely different right now with Mack demanding attention. The rookies would have a lot more free looks. STs had a punter and decent kicker that got blown up and it's been a problem as well. They were one more solid draft class away and maybe a splash FA buy in the secondary. They had some good young talent and would have had a ton of flexibility unloading some contracts like Bruce Irvin's. There was another way to go about this instead of signing the oldest roster in the league. You scrap the over paid underachievers like Irvin and keep developing. Bottom line.... What young players are on the team (not drafted by Gruden), He's not even allowing them time to develop. Example, you bench KJ and Conley but let you horrible rookie punter continue to cost you games with 27 yard punts? Ego is a sign of insecurity... and that's why Gruden sucks and likely won't be able to turn this thing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 This is hind sight but the turning point was signing Carr before Mack. In 2016 I wanted us to give Mack a 6 yr $120 million extension. Give or take a couple million per year. We could have given him more money in 2017 and lowered the money due through the remainder of the contract. I think after this year what would have amounted to roughly $18 million a year for Mack and would look like a bargain after this off-season. Then we could have taken a wait and see approach with Carr. I was not upset when they decided to extend Carr first because I thought there was no way they would not pay Mack since he had proven over a couple years that he was one of the leagues top defenders. If we would have waited on Carr his price would have dropped after his bad 2017 season or he would have been more motivated to improve on what he did last year. worse case scenario is that we franchise Carr this year and it cost us a couple extra million. Gruden has just compounded our issues with his own mistakes. I also read earlier today that the Jets had an offer on the table for Mack and we excepted the Chicago offer without giving the Jets a chance to improve their offer which they were willing to do. How hard would it have been to stall the Bears a few minutes to see if the Jets were willing to beat them. Could have started a bidding war and we would have made out with substantially more assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 9 hours ago, BayRaider said: It was, you had Carr (who isn't even good anyways), Mack, Cooper (also massively overrated) all about to be on their big deals, and we missed on three drafts in a row. Any team without a super elite QB who whiffs on three drafts in a row (completely ridiculous) is going into rebuild mode. Unless you're the Patriots, the key to winning a championship for the past decade plus has been hit on four drafts in a row, with your QB being on that rookie contract. Sure, losing Mack does suck. Think he is the Lawrence Taylor of our generation. But I don't think any team with Mack is ever getting only 5 wins and we need a couple Top 5 Picks right now. Carr isn't good right now but I'm not writing him off. Not opening that can of worms though -- seemed everyone was in agreement that he was the guy until the sky fell in week 2 or whenever. Cooper has been up and down, I can see a massively overrated argument but I can also see an argument for him not being helped enough. In the end, I do think the trade was the answer, agnostic of the rest of the team. As @big_palooka mentioned, our defense would be colossally different with Mack and I'm sure you would agree with me there. I think you're sort of sweeping it under the rug. That move didn't just suck, it was a catastrophe of enormous proportions. Because of how it happened. How are you going to lowball one of the premier players in the league who hasn't given any problems to speak of? And is the heart and soul of the locker room? We better nail those picks. Because I agree with BP, we needed another draft class. Maybe even 2. That, to me, equates to a reload and not a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said: Carr isn't good right now but I'm not writing him off. Not opening that can of worms though -- seemed everyone was in agreement that he was the guy until the sky fell in week 2 or whenever. Cooper has been up and down, I can see a massively overrated argument but I can also see an argument for him not being helped enough. In the end, I do think the trade was the answer, agnostic of the rest of the team. As @big_palooka mentioned, our defense would be colossally different with Mack and I'm sure you would agree with me there. I think you're sort of sweeping it under the rug. That move didn't just suck, it was a catastrophe of enormous proportions. Because of how it happened. How are you going to lowball one of the premier players in the league who hasn't given any problems to speak of? And is the heart and soul of the locker room? We better nail those picks. Because I agree with BP, we needed another draft class. Maybe even 2. That, to me, equates to a reload and not a rebuild. And how do you know Mark even had the money to pay Mack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808sinfour4time Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 On 10/26/2018 at 9:39 PM, BayRaider said: And how do you know Mark even had the money to pay Mack? I guess we don't. But if he didn't, it's a real testament to the organization's dysfunction and incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 What drives me nuts about the Mack trade is that we may have been able to get more and did not even try. We had an offer on the table from the Jets and when the offer came in from the Jets we did not even give them the chance to match rounds or even sweeten the deal. I do not know who is responsible but it was incredibly stupid to either just except it or allow the Bears into pressuring us in to not checking with other teams. Could have saved us that 2nd rounder and/or improved our draft position. Jets pick 11th and Chicago 16th currently. Difference of a early 3rd in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Raider Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Mack is out today but the bears probably still beat the Jets. Reggie Nelson is inactive today! We have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer026 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Bet everyone is happy about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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