Is it too early to focus on the 19 draft?

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

If we’re going to use a 2nd or 3rd round pick to help the running game I think using it on a LG or TE would help more than another RB.

Definitely blocking on the edge has been an issue for years. Neither Reed or VD are very good at it.

[Bo Duke]

The dream scenario for the Skins would be Hockenson or Devin White to be available at 15. That's the best we can really hope for at 15. I'm not sold on Brian Burns at 15 if he's there, hes too light to play the run. Would be a situational pass rusher at best and that's to rich for 15.

We will find out if we actually are taking BPA if either one of them is there. Or just the usual BS.

Both Hockenson and White have the tools and high floor factors to have a descent chance at all pro players.

My fallback plan at 15 would be Devin Bush. He doesn't get near enough love that he should.

We been scouring Alabama the last couple years. Let's try up Michigan and get Bush and Winovich. I'd be down for that 

[A TRAIN 89]

3 minutes ago, Bo Duke said:

The dream scenario for the Skins would be Hockenson or Devin White to be available at 15. That's the best we can really hope for at 15. I'm not sold on Brian Burns at 15 if he's there, hes too light to play the run. Would be a situational pass rusher at best and that's to rich for 15.

We will find out if we actually are taking BPA if either one of them is there. Or just the usual BS.

Both Hockenson and White have the tools and high floor factors to have a descent chance at all pro players.

My fallback plan at 15 would be Devin Bush. He doesn't get near enough love that he should.

We been scouring Alabama the last couple years. Let's try up Michigan and get Bush and Winovich. I'd be down for that 

Devin Bush was an absolute game changer in college. I just have a hard time believing that he’ll be able to replicate that level of play at the professional level. Height shouldn’t matter too much at MLB, but him barely being 5’11 seems like it could be a problem.

[Bo Duke]

I understand your logic but it doesn't matter how tall you are to read guard to fullback and attack downhill. His best traits are play recognition and sideline to sideline speed 

[e16bball]

It really is remarkable with Drew Lock and the difference in his production against major conference teams and lesser teams. 

Leaving out his freshman season when he played sporadically (and terribly), he played 9 games against teams outside of the Power 5: Eastern Michigan, Delaware State, Middle Tennessee State, Missouri State, Connecticut, Idaho, Tennessee-Martin, Wyoming, and Memphis. His stat line in those 9 games was: 

220/316 (69.6%) for 3535 yards (11.19 Y/A), 47 TDs, 2 INTs (23.5 TD/INT ratio), 211.41 rating

Compare that to his numbers in his 29 games against Power 5 competition:

534/974 (54.8%) for 7326 yards (7.52 Y/A), 48 TDs, 29 INTs (1.66 TD/INT ratio), 128.31 rating

 

Put another way, here is his average game against each level of competition:

Non Power 5: 24/35 for 393 yards, 5.2 TDs, 0.2 INTs

Power 5: 18/34 for 253 yards, 1.7 TDs, 1.0 INTs

 

Obviously, every QB performs better against smaller schools — but that magnitude of difference is pretty shocking. Apparently Missouri ran up the score so badly on these weaker teams that Lock’s overall stats are legitimately skewed by those few performances. Literally half of his TDs were in those 9 games (out of 38 total) against those cupcake opponents!

In sum, against weak competition, Lock played like the greatest college QB who ever lived. Against equal (or better) competition, he played like a slightly less efficient passer than guys like CJ Beathard, Deondre Francois, Feleipe Franks, Tommy Armstrong Jr., and Sean Mannion. If we could just play that Week 15 Jaguars squad every week, he might be a HOFer!

[e16bball]

The most remarkable thing is, as unimpressive as Lock’s stats were against Power 5 opponents — they were still a lot better than Daniel Jones’s overall numbers 😂

[LoganF89]

If and I mean if, the Giants end up trading for Rosen, if Haskins starts to fall a bit would you want to trade up a few rounds to get him?

im thinking buffalo would be true trade partner at number 9 if he starts to slide, we would have to jump teams like Denver, cincy, and miami

if Haskins is a guy you want what do you think the trade would have to be?

im thinking swap first and give them our top 3rd rounder and possibly our 3rd next year could be enough to get it done

[LoganF89]

Me personally I think that daniel Jones is the most NFL ready, I would like a trade back in the first getting more picks while scooping up either jones or Grier but I only trade back if we are looking to get a QB 

[e16bball]

23 minutes ago, LoganF89 said:

If and I mean if, the Giants end up trading for Rosen, if Haskins starts to fall a bit would you want to trade up a few rounds to get him?

im thinking buffalo would be true trade partner at number 9 if he starts to slide, we would have to jump teams like Denver, cincy, and miami

if Haskins is a guy you want what do you think the trade would have to be?

im thinking swap first and give them our top 3rd rounder and possibly our 3rd next year could be enough to get it done

Last year, the Cardinals traded up from #15 to #10 to draft Rosen.

They gave up #15 plus a 3rd (#79) and a 5th (#152). So I’d say you’re pretty much in the ballpark there. 

If they’re absolutely insistent on taking a QB in the first couple rounds of this draft, I think a little move up for Haskins like that is my preferred option. Much prefer to give up a couple mid-round picks for him than take one of the likely bums that will be in consideration at 15. 

[aceinthehouse]

Chargers reportedly are the only team to offer a 2nd for Rosen.

I would easily offer our 2nd straight up for Rosen.

The smarter move Imo, would be to offer our #15 in the first for their #33 pick in the 2nd swap.

That has a 2nd Rd value. Maybe throw in one of our 5th rounders to sweeten the deal.

They move up in the first, we lose nothing but maybe a 5th rounders & we land our Franchise QB on a very cheap deal.

We then don't need the #15 pick anyways for Lock, Haskins or Murray. Since we would have Rosen.

Leaving us with #33 & #45 in the 2nd would be a real good spot to land Rosen some targets at WR or TE's in Hockinson or Noah Fant.

Just thinking of other options in trading for Rosen.

[Bo Duke]

6 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

Chargers reportedly are the only team to offer a 2nd for Rosen.

I would easily offer our 2nd straight up for Rosen.

The smarter move Imo, would be to offer our #15 in the first for their #33 pick in the 2nd swap.

That has a 2nd Rd value. Maybe throw in one of our 5th rounders to sweeten the deal.

They move up in the first, we lose nothing but maybe a 5th rounders & we land our Franchise QB on a very cheap deal.

We then don't need the #15 pick anyways for Lock, Haskins or Murray. Since we would have Rosen.

Leaving us with #33 & #45 in the 2nd would be a real good spot to land Rosen some targets at WR or TE's in Hockinson or Noah Fant.

Just thinking of other options in trading for Rosen.

Hockenson and Fant will be long gone before pick 33. Going from 15 to 33 would be the smart move if they go for Rosen. Probably looking at Lindstrom, Irv Smith, Mack Wilson and maybe AJ Brown as options there.

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, A TRAIN 89 said:

Devin Bush was an absolute game changer in college. I just have a hard time believing that he’ll be able to replicate that level of play at the professional level. Height shouldn’t matter too much at MLB, but him barely being 5’11 seems like it could be a problem.

I totally agree and for whoever thinks players who are under 6’ in the NFL can’t be great thinks it’s a problem but there have been a lot of linebackers under 6’ that have had Hall of Fame type careers.

Sam Mills and London Fletcher come to mind just off the top of my head.

[turtle28]

9 hours ago, LoganF89 said:

Me personally I think that daniel Jones is the most NFL ready, I would like a trade back in the first getting more picks while scooping up either jones or Grier but I only trade back if we are looking to get a QB 

Jones may be the most NFL ready, but his ceiling is Good QB - like 10-15 range - not elite like Murray, Haskins & Lock.

[turtle28]

10 hours ago, e16bball said:

The most remarkable thing is, as unimpressive as Lock’s stats were against Power 5 opponents — they were still a lot better than Daniel Jones’s overall numbers 😂

Jones had zippy talent around him.

[turtle28]

10 hours ago, e16bball said:

It really is remarkable with Drew Lock and the difference in his production against major conference teams and lesser teams. 

Leaving out his freshman season when he played sporadically (and terribly), he played 9 games against teams outside of the Power 5: Eastern Michigan, Delaware State, Middle Tennessee State, Missouri State, Connecticut, Idaho, Tennessee-Martin, Wyoming, and Memphis. His stat line in those 9 games was: 

220/316 (69.6%) for 3535 yards (11.19 Y/A), 47 TDs, 2 INTs (23.5 TD/INT ratio), 211.41 rating

Compare that to his numbers in his 29 games against Power 5 competition:

534/974 (54.8%) for 7326 yards (7.52 Y/A), 48 TDs, 29 INTs (1.66 TD/INT ratio), 128.31 rating

 

Put another way, here is his average game against each level of competition:

Non Power 5: 24/35 for 393 yards, 5.2 TDs, 0.2 INTs

Power 5: 18/34 for 253 yards, 1.7 TDs, 1.0 INTs

 

Obviously, every QB performs better against smaller schools — but that magnitude of difference is pretty shocking. Apparently Missouri ran up the score so badly on these weaker teams that Lock’s overall stats are legitimately skewed by those few performances. Literally half of his TDs were in those 9 games (out of 38 total) against those cupcake opponents!

In sum, against weak competition, Lock played like the greatest college QB who ever lived. Against equal (or better) competition, he played like a slightly less efficient passer than guys like CJ Beathard, Deondre Francois, Feleipe Franks, Tommy Armstrong Jr., and Sean Mannion. If we could just play that Week 15 Jaguars squad every week, he might be a HOFer!

And this is my concern about Lock. I think it’s a concern for a lot of GMs and why he’s not a lock to go top 10 and I thought I heard that some GMs don’t really want him at all in round 1 because of his inconsistency. 

That being said Mahomes had a lot of inconsistencies in college too and that’s why he didn’t go top 10 or top 5. He’s lucky that Andy Reid took him, with Matt Naggy as the OC and that he could learn under Alex Smith for a year.

So, If Lock gets drafted, he needs to go to that kind of situation IMO. So, places like Denv, DC, NYG, maybe Miami and learn from Fitz? Seem like good places for him to go bc he definitely needs to sit for a year and learn/develop.