Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[AkronsWitness]

6 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

You have to be really comfortable with the idea of gaining generational wealth through insider trading. 

Facts. or screwing your way to the top or pandering to extremist groups.

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

Thats the same situation my wife is in. She wants a new job with 6 years of exp. and her Masters but she makes good enough money right now that going to a public school would be a downgrade. So she is stuck riding those 2k yearly cost of living raises.

I feel like there either needs to be a serious restructuring of the education system in how teachers are compensated (which every president candidate ever says the will fix and never do) OR 20 year old college kids should be more informed on finances in how they relate to each degree. 

Playing the "I want to be a teacher because I love helping and teaching kids" card only lasts for a few years into the job until you realize you are 25 years old making 32k per year and cant afford anything.

Education has been the priority of every American President since LBJ's "Great Society".

For the record, states down south do a higher starting salary but sooner cap, and that hasn't turned out well. I'd do what Finland does and start paying your teachers BIG BUCKS but only the top 25% in their college graduation classes make that money coming in and they take that into account.

Weed out the bad teachers, hire ringers, and revamp the system.

I'd also do what Japan and South Korean do, and I'd make 8th/9th graders take a test that if they score well on, they go into a college prep high school and if they don't, they go apprenticeship or trade school.

By 10th grade, we know who 90% of the students are who will or will not succeed in a traditional school setting.

[AkronsWitness]

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Education has been the priority of every American President since LBJ's "Great Society".

For the record, states down south do a higher starting salary but sooner cap, and that hasn't turned out well. I'd do what Finland does and start paying your teachers BIG BUCKS but only the top 25% in their college graduation classes make that money coming in and they take that into account.

Weed out the bad teachers, hire ringers, and revamp the system.

I'd also do what Japan and South Korean do, and I'd make 8th/9th graders take a test that if they score well on, they go into a college prep high school and if they don't, they go apprenticeship or trade school.

By 10th grade, we know who 90% of the students are who will or will not succeed in a traditional school setting.

I recall my cousin moving to NC because apparently the Carolinas are non intelligent so there was a mass hiring surge that took place where they heavily incentivized teachers from Ohio to move there. Almost like they were being cherry picked out of Ohio to come teach in the Carolinas since Ohios universities and structure were highly regarded for education.

[MWil23]

31 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I recall my cousin moving to NC because apparently the Carolinas are non intelligent so there was a mass hiring surge that took place where they heavily incentivized teachers from Ohio to move there. Almost like they were being cherry picked out of Ohio to come teach in the Carolinas since Ohios universities and structure were highly regarded for education.

Florida was also offering huge signing bonuses. I read a headline the other day that said “We don’t have an educator shortage. There are thousands of highly qualified experienced teachers who are no longer teaching. There’s a shortage of proper respect and compensation for teachers that allows them to effectively teach.”

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Florida was also offering huge signing bonuses. I read a headline the other day that said “We don’t have an educator shortage. There are thousands of highly qualified experienced teachers who are no longer teaching. There’s a shortage of proper respect and compensation for teachers that allows them to effectively teach.”

I truly dont see how fixing the system (a very important system) is not on the top of the priority list.

If this was something small, I can see how it gets overlooked or pushed down the line but its the entire education system in the country. At what point will fixing that make the front page headlines like inflation, green energy, oil and the stock market does.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

58 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Education has been the priority of every American President since LBJ's "Great Society".

But isn’t education and teacher salaries primarily a state issue?

58 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'd do what Finland does and start paying your teachers BIG BUCKS but only the top 25% in their college graduation classes make that money coming in and they take that into account.

I’ll be honest, I don’t think the issue has anything to do with bad teachers.  My kids go to public school and I’ve yet to run into a teacher who wasn’t engaged and actually trying.  The issue imo is the system, the students and often the parents.

58 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Weed out the bad teachers, hire ringers, and revamp the system.

I'd also do what Japan and South Korean do, and I'd make 8th/9th graders take a test that if they score well on, they go into a college prep high school and if they don't, they go apprenticeship or trade school.

By 10th grade, we know who 90% of the students are who will or will not succeed in a traditional school setting.

At least we seemed to have moved away from thinking that going to trade schools is a horrible idea and should only be done by people who can’t count higher than 10 with shoes on.

Trade schools should probably be the default tbh with kids having to opt in to more specific college prep courses.  We need to start having folks prepared to work a meaningful job at graduation.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I truly dont see how fixing the system (a very important system) is not on the top of the priority list.

If this was something small, I can see how it gets overlooked or pushed down the line but its the entire education system in the country. At what point will fixing that make the front page headlines like inflation, green energy, oil and the stock market does.

Because it’s expensive and people get arsed up at the idea of paying taxes.  Like @MWil23 lol.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

The average starting salary for a teacher in Ohio is 35k.  For a position that requires a BA and typically working towards a masters.

Even factoring in the cushy schedule (M-F, no weekends, no holidays, no nights, winter break, spring break, summer break) that number isn’t even close to competitive imo.

Imo they need to add a solid 10-15k to that.

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

But isn’t education and teacher salaries primarily a state issue?

Yes and no. States have certain rights pertaining to curriculum and licensure to go with funding and yet have federal compulsory education under the DoE that makes NCLB and Race to the Top and Common Core a thing as well.

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’ll be honest, I don’t think the issue has anything to do with bad teachers.  My kids go to public school and I’ve yet to run into a teacher who wasn’t engaged and actually trying.  The issue imo is the system, the students and often the parents.

At least we seemed to have moved away from thinking that going to trade schools is a horrible idea and should only be done by people who can’t count higher than 10 with shoes on.

EXACTLY 

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Trade schools should probably be the default tbh with kids having to opt in to more specific college prep courses.  We need to start having folks prepared to work a meaningful job at graduation.

Wholeheartedly agree, even if they still go to college but have that trade to fall back on and even work their way through school and earn quadruple minimum wage doing it.

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Because it’s expensive and people get arsed up at the idea of paying taxes.  Like @MWil23 lol.

 

Pretty much, but that’s due to the levy system that Ohio has that other states don’t. Plus when our military spends more than the 17 other next top countries combined and I don’t have a say but they up that taxes, I don’t understand why some government funded things need balanced or funded and some don’t. That’s my biggest issue.

[Bucketheadsdad]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Education has been the priority of every American President since LBJ's "Great Society".

For the record, states down south do a higher starting salary but sooner cap, and that hasn't turned out well. I'd do what Finland does and start paying your teachers BIG BUCKS but only the top 25% in their college graduation classes make that money coming in and they take that into account.

Weed out the bad teachers, hire ringers, and revamp the system.

I'd also do what Japan and South Korean do, and I'd make 8th/9th graders take a test that if they score well on, they go into a college prep high school and if they don't, they go apprenticeship or trade school.

By 10th grade, we know who 90% of the students are who will or will not succeed in a traditional school setting.

Sitting in my classroom as I type this.  Entering my 29th year of teaching which was preceeded by 4 years in the Navy, and many years in the "real world" before I finished up college.  (OK, I'm an old fart.  You guys remind me about this all the time.)  

This is something that I completely agree with.  I teach HS social studies (Government, AP Human Geography, and an elective history course), so even with teaching an AP course, the vast majority of my students fall into the category that you've highlighted.  The district where I teach does a fantastic job of meeting the needs of our college bound students.  When I looked at our scheduling materials in the spring, if a student took all of the college level and AP classes (passing the exams) that we offered just in our building, they could walk out of here with 70 undergrad credits.  I have had students graduate HS as college juniors and be in law school at age 20.  We also have a branch of a major state university about 15 minutes from the school, so if we don't have it here, they can get the courses that they want there. 

That is all fine and dandy.  Unfortunately, much of this has come at the expense of working with our students who may not be thinking about going to college.  The local multi-county vocational school has raised their GPA requirements in the last few years.  Therefore, a student must earn at least a 2.5 at the end of their sophomore year to even be eligible to attend the local vocational school.  Don't meet the requirement.  Tough toenails.  You're not getting in.  Period.  They're then "sentenced" to being pushed through a college preparatory program at our school, when they should be given the opportunity to learn a marketable skill or trade.  We have computer courses at our building, along with a few entry level "engineering your world" type courses.  Other than that, there's little for them to do here, besides trying to get through the hoops that they probably should not be jumping through.  Hell, we even disbanded our "Home Ec" courses about 4 years ago, and converted that large classroom into a room (one of the few with AC in our old building) where students who fall behind in their coursework (insert shocked disbelieving look here) get the "opportunity" to do credit recovery.  Online lessons and tests, not really engaging all with their peers.  

@MWil23You are absolutely correct.  We've got to find someway of breaking the "stigma" of blue collar jobs, along with the "everyone needs to go to college" cabal.  I've got about 6 years left before retirement (hell, I'll probably keep teaching, as my wife said that she wants to just drop me off at the Ohio Veteran's Home about 5 minutes away from the school when I retire.  (I think she is joking.)  

We need to absolutely do something dramatic to encourage a change in the way that we do things.  In our system, we have what we call DLT and BLT (District and Building Leadership Teams).  I'm not on either of those, which I'm OK with as I'm busy enough being NHS advisor, 14 weeks of announcing in the fall and the podcast.  (I've joked with administration that I'm going to form a secret "BPT" or building pragmatist team, where we sit in these meetings grumbling that we tried this cr*p 20+ years ago and it didn't work.)  

In three different points of egress from my school, I'm less than 10 minutes away from large (former) Ford, GM and Chrysler facilities that employed thousands here.  The Ford plant (a company that between grandfather, father, uncle, cousin, brother-in-law, there is almost 150 years working there) is now a significantly downsized subsidiary, and the other two facilities sit empty.  Fortunately we have a rather large "tourist" draw  (sorry about Top Thrill Dragster not operating) to help separate vacationers from their hard earned money.  Not much else happening around here anymore, and it is a damn shame.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Pretty much, but that’s due to the levy system that Ohio has that other states don’t. Plus when our military spends more than the 17 other next top countries combined and I don’t have a say but they up that taxes, I don’t understand why some government funded things need balanced or funded and some don’t. That’s my biggest issue.

I mean, you know my thoughts on military spending lol.  
 

Lots of ways this could be improved, we’re just choosing not to.

Like most everything else tbh.  There’s almost nothing we don’t from a governing perspective that hasn’t shown to be outdated, half-assed, or entirely for the benefit of a few to pillage and plunder.

[AkronsWitness]

25 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The average starting salary for a teacher in Ohio is 35k.  For a position that requires a BA and typically working towards a masters.

Even factoring in the cushy schedule (M-F, no weekends, no holidays, no nights, winter break, spring break, summer break) that number isn’t even close to competitive imo.

Imo they need to add a solid 10-15k to that.

None of that stuff though is truly a benefit. I had a cousin tell my wife one time that teachers didnt deserve to be paid more because 'they have half of the year off' and I thought I was going to witness a homicide.

From what I have seen, they have all of those holidays, breaks, ect--but they also work 50+ hour work weeks. Students arnt the only ones with homework after coming home from your 8 hour shift. Today for example, she has to stay at work from 7:30am-6:30pm because its 'meet the teacher' night. Then, there are in-home visits for every student she has to do during the year, meaning she works 8 hours and then every day for 2 weeks she has to go over to her students homes for 2-3 hours during dinner time and give parents roadmaps/progress reports. Those are 10 hour days for 2 weeks.

So while it might seem like they have a cushy schedule, it is just deserved time off from essentially working time and a half for 8 months out of the year--and they get paid so little, that most of them have 2nd jobs during summer/winter breaks (like our pet store). 

 

[MWil23]

@Bucketheadsdad fellow social studies teacher here. I teach 2 CCP courses aside from my general workload. Spot on brother! 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, Bucketheadsdad said:

Sitting in my classroom as I type this.  Entering my 29th year of teaching which was preceeded by 4 years in the Navy, and many years in the "real world" before I finished up college.  (OK, I'm an old fart.  You guys remind me about this all the time.)  

This is something that I completely agree with.  I teach HS social studies (Government, AP Human Geography, and an elective history course), so even with teaching an AP course, the vast majority of my students fall into the category that you've highlighted.  The district where I teach does a fantastic job of meeting the needs of our college bound students.  When I looked at our scheduling materials in the spring, if a student took all of the college level and AP classes (passing the exams) that we offered just in our building, they could walk out of here with 70 undergrad credits.  I have had students graduate HS as college juniors and be in law school at age 20.  We also have a branch of a major state university about 15 minutes from the school, so if we don't have it here, they can get the courses that they want there. 

That is all fine and dandy.  Unfortunately, much of this has come at the expense of working with our students who may not be thinking about going to college.  The local multi-county vocational school has raised their GPA requirements in the last few years.  Therefore, a student must earn at least a 2.5 at the end of their sophomore year to even be eligible to attend the local vocational school.  Don't meet the requirement.  Tough toenails.  You're not getting in.  Period.  They're then "sentenced" to being pushed through a college preparatory program at our school, when they should be given the opportunity to learn a marketable skill or trade.  We have computer courses at our building, along with a few entry level "engineering your world" type courses.  Other than that, there's little for them to do here, besides trying to get through the hoops that they probably should not be jumping through.  Hell, we even disbanded our "Home Ec" courses about 4 years ago, and converted that large classroom into a room (one of the few with AC in our old building) where students who fall behind in their coursework (insert shocked disbelieving look here) get the "opportunity" to do credit recovery.  Online lessons and tests, not really engaging all with their peers.  

@MWil23You are absolutely correct.  We've got to find someway of breaking the "stigma" of blue collar jobs, along with the "everyone needs to go to college" cabal.  I've got about 6 years left before retirement (hell, I'll probably keep teaching, as my wife said that she wants to just drop me off at the Ohio Veteran's Home about 5 minutes away from the school when I retire.  (I think she is joking.)  

We need to absolutely do something dramatic to encourage a change in the way that we do things.  In our system, we have what we call DLT and BLT (District and Building Leadership Teams).  I'm not on either of those, which I'm OK with as I'm busy enough being NHS advisor, 14 weeks of announcing in the fall and the podcast.  (I've joked with administration that I'm going to form a secret "BPT" or building pragmatist team, where we sit in these meetings grumbling that we tried this cr*p 20+ years ago and it didn't work.)  

In three different points of egress from my school, I'm less than 10 minutes away from large (former) Ford, GM and Chrysler facilities that employed thousands here.  The Ford plant (a company that between grandfather, father, uncle, cousin, brother-in-law, there is almost 150 years working there) is now a significantly downsized subsidiary, and the other two facilities sit empty.  Fortunately we have a rather large "tourist" draw  (sorry about Top Thrill Dragster not operating) to help separate vacationers from their hard earned money.  Not much else happening around here anymore, and it is a damn shame.  

We as a country look at HS as just some thing we all have to show up to and eventually graduate from, but there’s no real purpose for many students.

You either need to be truly prepared for college level courses (and probably have some college credits under your belt) or ready to work a “real” job and make a livable income.