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Media obsession with putting Rodgers in the GOAT convo

King Joffrey

By King Joffrey
in NFL General

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game3525

game3525

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Rodgers is only getting "GOAT" talk because Peyton's retired. 

They need someone to compare Brady with and Drew Brees isn't that guy, so they go with Rodgers. I think Rodgers is the best QB in the league, but it is a bit silly trying to revise history and pretending as if him vs Brady was some serious debate the last 10-12 years. 

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lancerman

lancerman

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2 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

Greatest all time talent- Rodgers

Greatest all time legacy- brady

Before him people would say "Montana's the greatest but Marino's really the most talented". Well when Manning was winning 5 MVPs and Brady was winning 5x Super Bowls nobody was going "are they better than Marino". 

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patriotsheatyan

patriotsheatyan

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I think most people don’t have a hard time accepting that Rodgers could be considered the best QB in terms of talent and general ability of all time, while also being able to recognize that he lacks then longevity due to not starting until his fourth year and time missed to injury, along with lack of team success, to be considered the greatest of all time in terms of resume or impact on the league.

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rich homie

rich homie

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The problem with "GOAT" debates is that the term 'greatest' is a very nebulous, subjective one that doesn't have any set definition. 

I would say that Rodgers might very well be the best at the physical act of throwing the ball when it comes to QB's I've watched live. Whether or not that makes him the greatest is up for debate.

Personally I would still put him a level below Manning and Brady until he starts to accumulate the volume that those two did.

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rich homie

rich homie

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3 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

Greatest all time talent- Rodgers

Greatest all time legacy- brady

I would stop short of saying Brady has the greatest legacy of all time until he actually has a legacy to leave behind. For me its still Montana in that position.

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lancerman

lancerman

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2 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

Ok and at the time they were, but they got passed. maybe someone will pass rodgers.

How? I'd really love to know what Rodgers does that Young didn't. Young did everything that Rodgers did as a passer AND was one of the most prolific running QB's ever. 

He didn't get passed. People just don't remember the week in and week out of how good someone was once they retired. Which is the same reason Rodgers won't age as well as Brady/Brees/Manning who will have most of their accolades last awhile. Brees and Manning and Brady will all be top 5 in most of the bulk stats for a generation or so, Manning will have the MVP record for a long time, it's going to take someone else playing out a whole career to get near Brady in Super Bowl wins and appearances that so far has only ever been close to replicated once over 60 years ago in the pre Super Bowl era. 

Also on a side note, I don't think making the craziest passes while scrambling outside the pocket really makes someone the greatest. Rodgers is currently the most physically talented at passing (can't say running because Cam exists) at a position that is 90% mental. I think it's kind of telling that the other 3 elite QB's of his era had just as much success being mostly pocket passers who just sat there and dissected defenses

 

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game3525

game3525

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Just now, rich homie said:

I would stop short of saying Brady has the greatest legacy of all time until he actually has a legacy to leave behind. For me its still Montana in that position.

I don't get this.

What legacy did Montana leave behind? 

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Broncofan

Broncofan

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23 minutes ago, lancerman said:

3-4 WAR coach. 

Without Brady: 55-63. 

Also Rodgers was a very different QB in college when he entered the league. McCarthy pretty much made Rodgers the QB he became when he worked on him those 3 years he sat on the bench. Belichick never really had that track record with any of Brady's backups.

It's too much of a catch 22. Nobody knows how Rodgers would have developed without McCarthy.

If you are suggesting Brady made BB we will just agree to disagree there.  BB in CLE, even the GOAT can only do so much, and like every great you often don’t start that way.  

As for McCarthy - his only plus are his early years.  He’s cost the Pack way more than he’s helped the last 5 years.  NFCG 2014 will live in eternity as his pinnacle for how to ****** defeat from the jaws of certain victory.   Fast forward to now - his insistence on using Jamal Williams over Aaron Jones in run situations just highlights how meh he’s become.   So yeah, -2 to -3 WAR coach.   Bottom 5-10 at this stage.  

I have nothing but respect for Brady’s career.  But anyone who thinks BB hasn’t helped him and that McCarthy hasn’t held back ARod, well simply agree to disagree.  

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ET80

ET80

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2 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:
2 hours ago, King Joffrey said:

meh the people saying talent said the same thing for Marino and Young, and will again for others. 

Ok and at the time they were, but they got passed. maybe someone will pass rodgers.

That's the nature of this game - people reach a peak, stand at the top of the mountain, only to be replaced. Heck, Rodgers "replacement" might be playing in KC right now. 

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lancerman

lancerman

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27 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Brady before 5 rings:

*Montana>Brady* - “He’s 4-0 in the SB, bro. You can’t beat perfection.”

Brady after 5 rings:

*Rodgers>Brady* - “It’s a team game dude, wins aren’t everything. Rodgers has no help.”

There’ll always be something. But anyway, yeah, it is interesting how Rodgers seemingly skipped over Brees/Peyton/Montana/anyone else you want in your top-all-time list. That’s the nature of it though.

It's not really much of a surprise. Brady spent most of his career with people going "yeah but". He's always led the debate so people just looked for the closest person to argue against him. At first it was Manning then Manning finally kinda lost the argument after he had a chance to really cap off one of the greatest latter seasons of his career with a ring against a quality defense and laid an egg. After 2013 he kinda fell off. Then it was always "Montana has 4 rings". Then it was "well Montana was undefeated in Super Bowls". But now Brady's been to twice as many, has more, and has more playoff wins over .500 than Montana has total. So now it's "well Rodgers makes all these amazing plays that I've never seen before". The arguments just getting vaguer

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lancerman

lancerman

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2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

If you are suggesting Brady made BB we will just agree to disagree there.  BB in CLE, even the GOAT can only do so much, and like every great you often don’t start that way.  

As for McCarthy - his only plus are his early years.  He’s cost the Pack way more than he’s helped the last 5 years.  NFCG 2014 will live in eternity as his pinnacle for how to ****** defeat from the jaws of certain victory.   Fast forward to now - his insistence on using Jamal Williams over Aaron Jones in run situations just highlights how meh he’s become.   So yeah, -2 to -3 WAR coach.   Bottom 5-10 at this stage.  

This is a misnomer. The Cleveland Belichick played in is NOT the current Cleveland Browns. Belichick coached the team that effectively became the Ravens and won a Super Bowl about 5 years later. The coach in Cleveland two years prior to Belichick had more playoff wins than him and 3 of the 4 coaches immediately preceding him all took them to playoffs. The current Browns team is a glorified expansion team and it's not the team Belichick coached. In fact there's a real argument that Belichick is legitimately the least successful longterm coach of the original Cleveland Browns (there's like two guys with a lower win percentage than him and one was a replacement after a coach got fired and the other lasted like a season or two). 

McCarthy actually went to an NFCCG without Rodgers. Had a winning record overall in his first three years without Rodgers starting. McCarthy had as many winning seasons, playoff appearances and playoff wins in 3 full seasons without Rodgers than Belichick had in 7 without Brady. 

Also lets be real, McCarthy's defense in 2014 got 6 turnovers to help Rodgers win. Rodgers was the guy throwing INT's in the endzone, who was afraid of throwing near an injured Richard Sherman, who couldn't punch the ball in the endzone most of the game. The Green Bay offense got handed the game on a silver platter. Now you can say that Rodgers was injured that game, but the defense made that game as easy as possible on him and the offense was a wet noodle. That's not really a great game to act like Rodgers was some hero who got screwed. He was one of the major reasons it wasn't a blow out win for the Packers and was even close to begin with

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