MVP Race

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

No, you didn't "know what I meant" with your know-it-all attitude. 5 turnovers, 5 picks... not misinformation, just mis-typed.

I addressed that it could’ve been a mistake. So...yeah, I did know what you meant. I know you meant turnovers. Hence why I said “misinformation, if not a mistake”. 

Quote

Turning a ball over, regardless of the reason, is a turnover. So, let's say Brees has 1 asterisk, and Mahomes has, by your count, 3? So... that's 3 times the amount in 1 game as Brees the whole season. Bravo.

Turning a ball over is a turnover? Go figure. 

You yourself wanted context for Brees. You opted to neglect context for Mahomes (or maybe you didn’t watch the game and thus you didn’t know it). That’s hypocrisy, don’t get cross because I pointed it out. 

[Chiefer]

7 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I think Brees has a better run game which only hinders his bulk stats and bulk stats are the ONLY argument for Mahomes currently. 

And better protection. Better protection means a safer pocket and better efficiency. Its easier to throw a accurate ball when you dont have Cam Erving blocking Aaron Donald 1-on-1.

A better defense means youre not treating every possesion like a must score situation. Taking a lot of pressure off the QB.

[MookieMonstah]

5 hours ago, Chiefer said:

And better protection. Better protection means a safer pocket and better efficiency. Its easier to throw a accurate ball when you dont have Cam Erving blocking Aaron Donald 1-on-1.

A better defense means youre not treating every possesion like a must score situation. Taking a lot of pressure off the QB.

Agree with the first part. Disagree with second. A bad defense surely helps Mahomes bulk stats, which is his biggest argument.

[SmittyBacall]

13 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

bulk stats are the ONLY argument for Mahomes currently.

What about winning?

13 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I think Brees has a better run game which only hinders his bulk stats

I don't understand how taking Kamara/Ingram off the roster makes Brees' case any better.

[Raves]

Just now, SmittyBacall said:

13 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

bulk stats are the ONLY argument for Mahomes currently.

What about winning?

13 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I think Brees has a better run game which only hinders his bulk stats

I don't understand how taking Kamara/Ingram off the roster makes Brees' case any better.

Brees is beating Mahomes in the winning category, including having the better performance against common opponents, specifically the rams where he went:

25/36, 69.4 comp%, 364 yards, 4 TD, 0 Turnovers.

Compared to Mahomes:

33/46, 71.74 comp%, 478 yards, 6TD, 5 Turnovers

Also it's been shown in the past that when Brees has had lesser running games that he carries the burden of the offense even further and would be putting up more passing yards and TDs though likely at the costs of some of his efficiency.  I mean it's not like KC doesn't haven't a good running game, but I'll admit the Saints is better at it.  But a lot of that comes down to the fact that IIRC our running backs often face less men in the box as defenses are trying to contain Drew Brees which opens up the runnign game more, we just finally have running backs that can really take advantage of it.

[SmittyBacall]

57 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Agree with the first part. Disagree with second. A bad defense surely helps Mahomes bulk stats, which is his biggest argument.

It also means you take less risk-adverse throws and hold the ball longer, leading to an increase in turnover opportunities for the defense and a less efficient stat line - which is Brees' biggest argument (efficiency). Which is also the Mahomes MVP counter argument that he turns the ball over too much. 

I get where you're coming from but you have to see both sides to every coin.

[MookieMonstah]

48 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

What about winning?

I don't understand how taking Kamara/Ingram off the roster makes Brees' case any better.

Saints have a better record so how can that be used to prop Mahomes above Brees...? 

[FrantikRam]

17 hours ago, Buckweath said:

Sure, let's not mention OL. It doesn't make any difference after all.

 

 

I mean, after week 12 PFF ranks the Saints as 5th and the Chiefs as 12th. Not too glaring of a difference. Brees gets the ball out quicker too, so it's difficult to compare them.

[SmittyBacall]

4 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Saints have a better record so how can that be used to prop Mahomes above Brees...? 

Looking back I should have realized you meant it as a comparison to Brees. Still, you said Mahomes only argument is stats, which isn't true.

But you didn't answer my hypothetical.

[Malik]

14 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I think Brees has a better run game which only hinders his bulk stats and bulk stats are the ONLY argument for Mahomes currently. 

Eh not the only one. There aren't any games this year like Giants or Vikings games were Brees was average and yet his team still dominated. You could argue that the Chiefs need Mahomes to be dominate to win games (hypothetically) whereas that isn't necessarily true for the Saints. That's still a pretty weak argument though.

[Mid Iowa]

10 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I addressed that it could’ve been a mistake. So...yeah, I did know what you meant. I know you meant turnovers. Hence why I said “misinformation, if not a mistake”. 

Turning a ball over is a turnover? Go figure. 

You yourself wanted context for Brees. You opted to neglect context for Mahomes (or maybe you didn’t watch the game and thus you didn’t know it). That’s hypocrisy, don’t get cross because I pointed it out. 

I'm not going to go all Attorney on you here, but there's so much contradictory context with your argument, that I'm having trouble making sense with it. 

So, you'll never in a million years convince me that Mahomes deserves the MVP because he turned the ball over 5 times in a LOSS to a team that Brees did NOT lose to, and Brees put up 4 scores with zero turnovers. I don't care if Pat was having a bad day, was in a hostile environment, got tugged, tripped, scared, dog got hit by a car earlier that day, I don't care. 

Efficiency in this league is paramount. Mahomes lack of efficiency has cause his team to lose 2 very big games, 1 with major playoff implications. In those 2 games, Mahomes has turned the ball over 7 times. He caused his entire team to lose 2 games by not protecting the ball. It is absolutely cut & dried.

I'll go on to say that if he only turns the ball over 1 time in each game, they're sitting at 11-0 right now. The turnovers cost his team points, and they only lost by 3 and 4 points in those 2 games. That is impressive, and glaring that the loss sit squarely on him.

Brees on the other hand, has not caused a loss. In the Saints 1 loss, Brees was 82% on his passing with 3 scores and over 400 yards passing. Had Brees turned the ball over even 1 time, I'd be singing a far different tune.

That enough context for ya, or are you going to try to use hypocrisy again? Where it doesn't fit...

[MookieMonstah]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

Eh not the only one. There aren't any games this year like Giants or Vikings games were Brees was average and yet his team still dominated. You could argue that the Chiefs need Mahomes to be dominate to win games (hypothetically) whereas that isn't necessarily true for the Saints. That's still a pretty weak argument though.

Uh? Jaguars? He had 300 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INT. Denver he had 300 yards 1 TD. Brees completed 80% of his passes against the Vikings, the Saints didn't need to pass the ball but he certainly wasn't average in that game.

[jrry32]

26 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

I'm not going to go all Attorney on you here, but there's so much contradictory context with your argument, that I'm having trouble making sense with it. 

So, you'll never in a million years convince me that Mahomes deserves the MVP because he turned the ball over 5 times in a LOSS to a team that Brees did NOT lose to, and Brees put up 4 scores with zero turnovers. I don't care if Pat was having a bad day, was in a hostile environment, got tugged, tripped, scared, dog got hit by a car earlier that day, I don't care. 

Efficiency in this league is paramount. Mahomes lack of efficiency has cause his team to lose 2 very big games, 1 with major playoff implications. In those 2 games, Mahomes has turned the ball over 7 times. He caused his entire team to lose 2 games by not protecting the ball. It is absolutely cut & dried.

I'll go on to say that if he only turns the ball over 1 time in each game, they're sitting at 11-0 right now. The turnovers cost his team points, and they only lost by 3 and 4 points in those 2 games. That is impressive, and glaring that the loss sit squarely on him.

Brees on the other hand, has not caused a loss. In the Saints 1 loss, Brees was 82% on his passing with 3 scores and over 400 yards passing. Had Brees turned the ball over even 1 time, I'd be singing a far different tune.

That enough context for ya, or are you going to try to use hypocrisy again? Where it doesn't fit...

Brees "caused" a loss to the Buccaneers.

[MookieMonstah]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Brees "caused" a loss to the Buccaneers.

Brees caused the defense to let Fitzpatrick score on every drive? Mahomes turnovers can be directly associated with a lot of the blame for the Chiefs two losses. You can't say that about the Saints lone loss.

[tyler735]

Lol at saying Brees "caused" a loss to the Buccaneers. By this logic, Goff "caused" his team to lose against the Saints, which I suppose does hold more validity than the initial claim, as Goff did have a key turnover in his teams loss.