NightTrainLane Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, dante9876 said: You honestly think knj is going to see the end result of this,so called rebuilt defense? You dont think he going to get the same treatment musgrave got and wont be renewed. What can jdr and knj say to reggie to make him renew his contract next offseason. 6 or 7 starters on a defense is good enough to be average. Honestly all we need is average, to hover around 13-17. Just not the garbage we been. And who says we won't be that or better. Everyone of you said KNJ wouldn't make past the year last year. I'll say it again. They are building and patience and consistency matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Wether it is RM or the coaching staff it is starting to become clear that we do not value the middle of the D. We do not have an ILB that is making more than $1 million this year and the only DT making more than that is Jelly at just under $2 million. The only reason why he is getting that much is that he is in the final year of his rookie deal. To put it into perspective we paid our #3-4 WR Patterson more than our starting DTs and LBs (excluding Irvin) combined. I understand we need to look for value but he is almost making more than all the DTs an ILBs combined that we curently have under contract while carrying 90 players. That is ten players as of right now. I think it's clear we don't value LBs enough like we should. Reggie has failed miserably addressing that unit through both FA and drafting. We apparently think it's fine to throw late round picks into the fire early and have them wear the green dot. We all saw what happened with Heeney last year, can't say I'm too optimistic about Lee so far. But I don't think you can say that about DT. We gave Dan Williams a nice sized deal, tried to get Pot Roast a couple years ago, and drafted three highly picked players at the position in the last two years. So I can at least see an effort being made at DT by Reg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: And who says we won't be that or better. Everyone of you said KNJ wouldn't make past the year last year. I'll say it again. They are building and patience and consistency matter. Consistency without improvement is just wasting time. We already seen this story with Rodgers. No point of wasting carr years with bad defenses. You was right about KNJ staying. But again unless drastically improve, what is he going to say to get a new contract. Seahawks built a dominate defense in 2 years. No reason we cant build an average one in 3 or 4. Somebody got to take blame if they perform bad again this year. Reggie and JDR aint going no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 People are way over reacting to pre season. Defenses are always vanilla in pre season as no-one wants to show their hand. I would also doubt much game planning goes into these games. I'll wait for the regular season to judge the defense. Wouldn't be surprised if we make vet signings like Riley after week 1 when their contracts aren't guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said: I think it's clear we don't value LBs enough like we should. Reggie has failed miserably addressing that unit through both FA and drafting. We apparently think it's fine to throw late round picks into the fire early and have them wear the green dot. We all saw what happened with Heeney last year, can't say I'm too optimistic about Lee so far. But I don't think you can say that about DT. We gave Dan Williams a nice sized deal, tried to get Pot Roast a couple years ago, and drafted three highly picked players at the position in the last two years. So I can at least see an effort being made at DT by Reg. I would agree but MEJ and Ward were drafted as base ends that can kicks inside when needed. Ward is closer to being a 3T but still not a typical player at that position especially when you think of the type of DT Del Rio has had on other teams. Vanderdoes is the only highly drafted DT since his has been here. Big Dan's deal made him the 11 highest paid DT when we signed him. This is the only time we have invested money in a DT and currently have no high talent/potential at the position. Sucks because this year and next on his contract would have been his cap friendly years. I would have loved for them to have pursued Brandon Williams in FA but would have settled to hear about names like Poe, Logan, or Hankins. They want to see what Vanderdoes has at UT but I think it is clear that Jelly is going to be a below average starter. Vanderdoes-Ellis with Lee behind them is a formula for disaster. We played the run well against the Rams until they ran between the tackles. Our DTs were gettin blown off the line and even when they stopped Gurley at the LOS they were still pushed back a few yards and the Rams got good yardage. Only week 2 of preseason but this is our biggest or second biggest problem and is only going to make issues worse in the secondary as we start bringing the safeties down to the LOS for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, Dessie said: People are way over reacting to pre season. Defenses are always vanilla in pre season as no-one wants to show their hand. I would also doubt much game planning goes into these games. I'll wait for the regular season to judge the defense. Wouldn't be surprised if we make vet signings like Riley after week 1 when their contracts aren't guaranteed. Yes agree it is preseason but when your guys are getting run over man to man it shows who has the greater individual talent. That would not be such a big problem if our team played like a single unit or we had great coaches that could get more out of our players but neither coaching or cohesion are our strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinraraiderfan 3 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Darkness said: 3-13 Hire JDR 7-9 12-4 Reggie, JDR, and KNJ all share equal blame for the defense. The problem is not firing KNJ yet no , your missing something reggie record is this 4-12 3-13 4-12 7-9 12-4 tha s wins 30 , losses 50 , i know you can tur aorun a losing team in one yer but we are going into reggie 6 year , and unlike som body said before , i dont see us super contender , so yea his work seeems regular to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinraraiderfan 3 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: He's right. Preseason is very important. Down with Reggie!! ok, well talk at the end of the season if you have the guts of not bloking me to see who was right , accept ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, latinraraiderfan 3 said: ok, well talk at the end of the season if you have the guts of not bloking me to see who was right , accept ? We just went to the playoffs last season and have a chance to go to the playoffs every year with DC and Mack on our team and you think Reggie is average? He just won executive of the year! He drafted Khalil Mack, Derek Carr and Gabe Jackson all in the same draft! Kyle Joseph is a thumper and had 60 tackles in limited action. He picked up B. Irvin from Seattle who can wreck games. He drafted Amari Cooper instead of Kevin White which a lot of people thought was wrong. They thought K. White had more potential. He's had 19 receptions in 2 years. He signed M. Lynch away from Seattle. Without him and his connections that may have not happened. Reggie's work has been outstanding. I think we should take the discussion regarding KNJ and Reggie and start another forum post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 17 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: I'm not gonna get into a back in forth on the coaching that neither of us know ANYTHING about. You guys can all rail against KNJ but he isn't going anywhere and that is the right move as we build the roster and the scheme. We need to train up the young guys and stay consistent to the scheme which we know works. As we get more and more pieces and the group plays together more and more they'll improve. Why don't I know ANYTHING about coaching? I can't say that not making adjustments to presnap shifts isn't a result of bad coaching? I can't say that playing 2 safeties deep in a goal line look is bad coaching? I can't say that seeing poor player development on the defensive side of the ball has something to do with coaching? You literally said it takes 4-5 years to install a scheme. There are good starters on a team that don't even play 4-5 years with the same team. That's the worst excuse I've heard in the last decade for why a defense isn't good. The Giants went from 32nd to a top 10 defense IN ONE YEAR. They added the right free agents, had good coaching, and voila! Don't act like fielding a serviceable defense is some monumental task. Plenty of teams accomplish it every year and it hasn't taken them 4-5 years to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Why don't I know ANYTHING about coaching? I can't say that not making adjustments to presnap shifts isn't a result of bad coaching? I can't say that playing 2 safeties deep in a goal line look is bad coaching? I can't say that seeing poor player development on the defensive side of the ball has something to do with coaching? You literally said it takes 4-5 years to install a scheme. There are good starters on a team that don't even play 4-5 years with the same team. That's the worst excuse I've heard in the last decade for why a defense isn't good. The Giants went from 32nd to a top 10 defense IN ONE YEAR. They added the right free agents, had good coaching, and voila! Don't act like fielding a serviceable defense is some monumental task. Plenty of teams accomplish it every year and it hasn't taken them 4-5 years to do so. I'm not gonna get into a back in forth on the coaching that neither of us know ANYTHING about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Dessie said: People are way over reacting to pre season. Defenses are always vanilla in pre season as no-one wants to show their hand. I would also doubt much game planning goes into these games. I'll wait for the regular season to judge the defense. Wouldn't be surprised if we make vet signings like Riley after week 1 when their contracts aren't guaranteed. We say this every preseason and still come out and field a terrible defense. Its not an overreaction any more until the unit proves otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: I'm not gonna get into a back in forth on the coaching that neither of us know ANYTHING about. You know enough that it takes 4-5 years to scheme and coach up a good defense? That was all you, I never speculated about how long it takes to install a scheme, I just pointed out examples of teams that have proven that to be false and installed a good defense quickly and succesfully. Don't act like people watching don't know what's going on. If I can call out a coverage and tell you if it's good or bad for the situation, it means that I know what's going on and I have every right to criticize play calling and coaching. You use this as a cop out for anything. With linebackers "well none of us have seen them play". Ok..., well JDR said they didn't attack the LB position well. With coaching "none of us know and no one will get fired". Musgrave gets let go of. If you can't be critical of coaching/playcalling, that's like half the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: You know enough that it takes 4-5 years to scheme and coach up a good defense? That was all you, I never speculated about how long it takes to install a scheme, I just pointed out examples of teams that have proven that to be false and installed a good defense quickly and succesfully. Don't act like people watching don't know what's going on. If I can call out a coverage and tell you if it's good or bad for the situation, it means that I know what's going on and I have every right to criticize play calling and coaching. You use this as a cop out for anything. With linebackers "well none of us have seen them play". Ok..., well JDR said they didn't attack the LB position well. With coaching "none of us know and no one will get fired". Musgrave gets let go of. If you can't be critical of coaching/playcalling, that's like half the game. I didn't say you couldn't comment on your opinion or be critical. Once again... I'm not gonna get into a back in forth on the coaching that neither of us know ANYTHING about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: I didn't say you couldn't comment on your opinion or be critical. Once again... I'm not gonna get into a back in forth on the coaching that neither of us know ANYTHING about. Yep it's a pure copout. I'm pretty sure a lot of people know plenty about the role coaching plays, what a coach is responsible for, including playcalling, coaching up players, scheming around players strengths rather than the other way around, etc. How do you know that KNJ won't be fired, if you don't know anything about coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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