TheeRealDeal Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Myles Garrett and Genard Avery are both perfect for 34 OLB. Myles can still put his hand in the dirt on obvious rush situations but I think backing off slightly and standing him up might actually help him in the run game. And one of his deadliest skills so far in the NFL is long sticking or stunting to the A and B gaps. You can do this much easier and more creatively starting from a two point stance. Larry Ogunjobi is also an ideal one gap 34 NT especially for today's NFL. Obviously he wouldn't be a great fit for the Jamaal Williams, Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork role because those guys all played in a 2 gap 34 system. As a 1 tech like he plays right now it is fairly easy for the center and guards to know what gap Larry O is attacking. Line him up as a zero tech and they have no idea which A gap he is going to attack. Play games with the linebackers and if they guess wrong there is no center in the NFL that is going to handle Larry O's quickness 1v1. Joe Schobert is perfectly fine for a 34 defense as well. We would need another ILB but I feel we need another LB now as it stands. Christian Kirksey is fine until we find someone else in a 43 or 34. Chad Thomas has the idea build and quickness to be a great 1 gap 34 DE as well. I personally don't like the idea of him as a 3 tech. I think he is a LDE in a 43 or a 34 DE. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Chad Thomas is a pro bowler in year 3. I didn't even know who the guy was when we drafted him but as I watched over the summer I thought we had the steal of the draft. Injuries have made this season a redshirt year and 3 tech is a stupid idea for him. The guy I am no sold fit a 34 is Emmanuel Ogbah. He doesn't have the athletic ability, flexibility or range to play 34 OLB and he doesn't have the length or hand usage to play 5 tech and win the edge against OTs in the run game. I don't see him as a fit except as a 3rd down pass rushing 5 tech. We would need to draft a starting caliber 5tech to pair with Chad Thomas. DE Chad Thomas - Raekwon Davis or your favorite 5 tech in 10-20 range of draft NT Larry Ogunjobi - Malcolm Brown DE David Irving - Emmanuel Ogbah OLB Myles Garrett - Chris Smith ILB Joe Schobert ILB Christian Kirksey OLB Genard Avery - Free Agent Signing I am neither yay or nay on the idea. We need to sign 1 Dlineman and draft 1 DLineman regardless of scheme. There are so many good Dlineman in the draft but they all seem to fit best in certain roles, so the key is going to be drafting the Lineman to fit the scheme you are wanting to run, or take the BPA and design the scheme to fit his skill sets. I believe the guys we have other than Ogbah are scheme versatile like Schobert, Thomas, Avery or scheme transcendent like Garrett and Ogunjobi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, buno67 said: Also if you are running the 1gap 3/4, you might as well just run the 4/3 lol There are benefits to running a 1 gap 34 as opposed to the 43. Yes the gap responsibilities and run fits are identical but the ability to cause confusing and add doubt to the QB and OL reads is way easier in a 34 and you can create more 1v1 opportunities for your 3 down lineman and edge rushers. Also the idea that your ILB's have to be extra great taking on blocks in a 1 gap is ridiculous. NFL linebackers in all schemes will have to take on blocks. Offenses are not stupid and the design plays to get hats on teams best players regardless of alignment, run fit or position. I do it all the time as a high school OC and as someone who was never a GA or had a college football background. I am no where close tot he smartest coach in my conference let alone smarter than NFL OCs. The best of the best linebackers to ever play the game have never been guys who were good at taking on blocks. When you take on a block it is typically too late. The best of the best were great at quickly diagnosing a play and finding clean paths to the ball carrier before the blocking scheme arrives. That is what makes Luke Kuechly so good. It is why Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis and Junior Seau were so great. Joe Schobert can start in both schemes. Christian Kirksey can be upgraded regardless of what scheme and Jamie Collins needs cut no matter what scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 It's really not a conundrum. there are several very good DE in free agency this year and their are about a dozen 3t I'd love to have in the draft. We need a couple LB too if we jettison Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, bosko1616 said: With another regime change it brings up the possibility of yet another Defenive scheme change. The most significant would be the switch from 4-3 to 3-4. Less significant would be 4-3 to wide 9 ( Seattle ). Now I believe we’re closer to being a truly elite D then we ever have been. If it was up to me I wouldn’t change our base 4-3 but it’s not so I think it would be wise to atleast start warming up to the idea so we’re not all pissed when it does happen. Let’s take a look at a possibile 3-4 alignment we could get excited about. I’m going to rock the Ravens 3-4 alignment. Where Garrett plays the Suggs roll and very rarely goes into coverage but will from time to time so it looks like a 4-3 but it’s a 3-4 with one down LB. ( I’m including Draft and FA in here to try and make myself feel better ) OLB - Garrett DE - Ogbah ( Rookie year 285 Ogbah ) NT - Ogunjobi ( this switch hurts him the most ) DE - Q. Williams ( Draft ) OLB - Dee Ford/Genard Avery MLB - Schobert and Kirksey ( immediate Weakness ) both are undersized and we would need a true Mike to help with the Run game. ( Khalil Hodges/Devon White are options in the Draft ) its going to take me time to start looking at 3-4 guys again so consider this a rough draft. What’s your guys thoughts ? Q. Williams would not be in the equation. It would definitely be tillery or Davis. I'd take tillery. Here are some prospects to check out for a 3/4. DE: Tillery, Brown, Davis, Kaufusi, Zach Allen NT: Buggs, Gaines ... could be late round steals ---> Mack, Sagapolu OLB: Burns, ferguson, polite, winovich ILB: Edwards, Jennings, cam smith Tillery and Gaines are my favorite NT and DE right now. Both Buggs and Gaines are true 3-4 NT. Stout at the point, run stuffers. frees up our LB. I think Polite could be a good 3-4 OLB opposite Garrett if we made the switch. I think a switch would seriously set back our development as a D? We would essentially need a whole new front 3 and an OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: There are benefits to running a 1 gap 34 as opposed to the 43. Yes the gap responsibilities and run fits are identical but the ability to cause confusing and add doubt to the QB and OL reads is way easier in a 34 and you can create more 1v1 opportunities for your 3 down lineman and edge rushers. Also the idea that your ILB's have to be extra great taking on blocks in a 1 gap is ridiculous. NFL linebackers in all schemes will have to take on blocks. Offenses are not stupid and the design plays to get hats on teams best players regardless of alignment, run fit or position. I do it all the time as a high school OC and as someone who was never a GA or had a college football background. I am no where close tot he smartest coach in my conference let alone smarter than NFL OCs. The best of the best linebackers to ever play the game have never been guys who were good at taking on blocks. When you take on a block it is typically too late. The best of the best were great at quickly diagnosing a play and finding clean paths to the ball carrier before the blocking scheme arrives. That is what makes Luke Kuechly so good. It is why Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis and Junior Seau were so great. Joe Schobert can start in both schemes. Christian Kirksey can be upgraded regardless of what scheme and Jamie Collins needs cut no matter what scheme. It’s not identical for this team tho. The front 7 is geared for the 4/3. Going to the 3/4 cause changes. Garrett needs to be a hand in the dirty or on the LOS at all times. He should never have coverage responsibilities like what potentially could happen in a 3/4. Yeah all LBs have to take on blocks but 3/4 you are asked to do it a lot more often. Look at the career Jackson had for us in all his years as an ILB in a 3/4. He wasn’t physical enough to be an impact LB in the 3/4. I see the same thing with Schobert. I think Joe could be fine in the 3/4 but he is suited a lot better in a 4/3 and I think he could be one of the better ILBs if he stays as a Mike 4/3. Your talking about HoF caliber players. Of course they would be great in any scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatgerman Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 6 hours ago, bosko1616 said: I’m really hoping Kris Richards becomes a candidate for DC. I think Garrett’s gone at the end of the year which leaves him to signwhere ever. Garrett and then maybe get Frank Clark Ogunjobi and maybe Oliver or Williams would be nasty. Might also give us an in with DeMarcus Lawrence, if he's available. Personally, I prefer Clark since he's a local and younger, but I'm thrilled with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 screw the 3-4 forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I’m still a fan of keeping Williams if he can work with whoever the next head coach is, especially if it’s a first time head coach. That kind of experience would be great for a newbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I do not see a conundrum. Picking a player to fit a scheme is limiting, as some posts in this thread have illustrated. Simply a matter of getting the BPA and figuring out how best to use him. Take a page out of BB's playbook. Being wedded to a scheme is stupid. Hit what's pitched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Round peg, see square hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 not really worried about it you would have to trade garrett then for 4 straight years draft linebackers 1 then you would be fired in your 3rd year because your last against the run and the pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 10 hours ago, TheeRealDeal said: There are benefits to running a 1 gap 34 as opposed to the 43. Yes the gap responsibilities and run fits are identical but the ability to cause confusing and add doubt to the QB and OL reads is way easier in a 34 and you can create more 1v1 opportunities for your 3 down lineman and edge rushers. Also the idea that your ILB's have to be extra great taking on blocks in a 1 gap is ridiculous. NFL linebackers in all schemes will have to take on blocks. Offenses are not stupid and the design plays to get hats on teams best players regardless of alignment, run fit or position. I do it all the time as a high school OC and as someone who was never a GA or had a college football background. I am no where close tot he smartest coach in my conference let alone smarter than NFL OCs. The best of the best linebackers to ever play the game have never been guys who were good at taking on blocks. When you take on a block it is typically too late. The best of the best were great at quickly diagnosing a play and finding clean paths to the ball carrier before the blocking scheme arrives. That is what makes Luke Kuechly so good. It is why Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis and Junior Seau were so great. Joe Schobert can start in both schemes. Christian Kirksey can be upgraded regardless of what scheme and Jamie Collins needs cut no matter what scheme. sorry disagree there is only one 3-4 linbacker in this draft and you would need to trade or draft 6 front seven personell i am not ready to going back to last in offense and last in defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: screw the 3-4 forever. I agree 100%. There are some things they the Browns just haven’t been able to do, can’t currently do and never will be able to do. We can’t defend a screen pass. We can’t run a successful screen pass We can’t defend TE’s We sure as hell cant run the 3/4 Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Activated10 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 I hope the new HC isn't dumb enough to hire a DC that runs a 34 defense. What a waste a talent that would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 If we ran what Baltimore does, we’d be fine. Myles would have his hand in the dirt like Suggs did his entire career. Worst comes to worst, you could just draft Dexter Lawrence to play NT and Jerry Tillery to be another 3/4 DE. You our guys are too obsessed with the X and O’s, just add talent. DE: Larry O NT: Dexter Lawrence DE: Jerry Tillery OLB: Garrett MLB: Kirksey MLB: Schobert OLB: This is the tricky spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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