How many wins will it take for the Chargers...

[Zappaz]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah I’m not down on Lynn at all.   I just want him to stay aggressive.  Too many teams HC’s lose their edge over time.   If you have a good unit you believe in them.  Playing kill-the-clock only makes sense if the odds are so much in your favor only mistakes can bring a team back.   Hopefully we see that aggression of going for it on 4th and short or letting the O win games (rather than McCoy’s don’t lose play calling that lost so many games they should have won) continue. 

I'm curious on how much of the vanilla schemes while winning is to keep the scouting sheets thin. In today's copy cat world, showing good plays while not really needing to could lead to other teams using them as well. Look at what the Chiefs did the first game of the year with that jet sweep forward toss... now all the teams are using it.

[Shanedorf]

6 minutes ago, Zappaz said:

I'm curious on how much of the vanilla schemes while winning is to keep the scouting sheets thin. In today's copy cat world, showing good plays while not really needing to could lead to other teams using them as well. Look at what the Chiefs did the first game of the year with that jet sweep forward toss... now all the teams are using it.

Good point. Smart coaches play their hands like a master poker player over the course of a season. If you don't need to show an ACE to win, then don't.
As you noted, its a copycat league and there's no honor among thieves.

[Broncofan]

14 minutes ago, Zappaz said:

I'm curious on how much of the vanilla schemes while winning is to keep the scouting sheets thin. In today's copy cat world, showing good plays while not really needing to could lead to other teams using them as well. Look at what the Chiefs did the first game of the year with that jet sweep forward toss... now all the teams are using it.

Meh it’s not like the plays are that much of a secret.  Going pass on 1st down isn’t giving away a lot of info teams can glean future game plans off.  It’s not like there are 5+ Philly special type plays waiting to be unleashed.  

[Non-Issue]

When the Chargers move out of LA.

[Non-Issue]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:34 PM, Jlowe22 said:

For a state with the GDP and population larger than Canada, you'd think they'd have enough fans to go around a few teams.

Raiders
Chargers
Rams
Niners
Angels
Dodgers
Padres
Giants
Warriors
Lakers
Clippers
Kings (NBA)
Kings (NHL)
Ducks
Sharks

Plus about a thousand colleges.

I would say Cali has enough fans to go around a few teams.
 

[Jlowe22]

22 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

Raiders
Chargers
Rams
Niners
Angels
Dodgers
Padres
Giants
Warriors
Lakers
Clippers
Kings (NBA)
Kings (NHL)
Ducks
Sharks

Plus about a thousand colleges.

I would say Cali has enough fans to go around a few teams.
 

And still nobody shows up to Chargers games.

[Non-Issue]

8 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

And still nobody shows up to Chargers games.

They did when the Chargers were in San Diego.

And I would say what I listed was more than a "few" teams.

[Jlowe22]

2 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

They did when the Chargers were in San Diego.

And I would say what I listed was more than a "few" teams.

I wasn't saying California didn't have a lot of sports teams, I was saying they should have a large enough population that several NFL teams could have good sized fanbases.  I would have expected teams like the Chargers to have more fans show up to games, and games like Rams v Packers to not be a Packer home game. 

[Bolts223]

21 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I wasn't saying California didn't have a lot of sports teams, I was saying they should have a large enough population that several NFL teams could have good sized fanbases.  I would have expected teams like the Chargers to have more fans show up to games, and games like Rams v Packers to not be a Packer home game. 

A major problem with Chargers home games is how expensive tickets are to the Stubhub Center.

I can afford to go to maybe 1 home game there a season. There are 8 options for me to choose from, this year I actually ended up going to the Chargers/Rams game at the Colosseum which is what a lot of Chargers fans did because it was so much cheaper and that game was actually about 40% Chargers fans, but I digress.

My point being is this: If I'm a Chargers fan living in LA and can only go to 1-2 games a season, then that's 1-2 games of a possible 8 for me to show up at. If I'm a Broncos or Chiefs fan living in LA and can only afford to go to 1-2 games a season, I know which game I'm going to.

[Jlowe22]

2 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

A major problem with Chargers home games is how expensive tickets are to the Stubhub Center.

I can afford to go to maybe 1 home game there a season. There are 8 options for me to choose from, this year I actually ended up going to the Chargers/Rams game at the Colosseum which is what a lot of Chargers fans did because it was so much cheaper and that game was actually about 40% Chargers fans, but I digress.

My point being is this: If I'm a Chargers fan living in LA and can only go to 1-2 games a season, then that's 1-2 games of a possible 8 for me to show up at. If I'm a Broncos or Chiefs fan living in LA and can only afford to go to 1-2 games a season, I know which game I'm going to.

I understand.  The tickets are ridiculously expensive, especially for good seats.

[BayRaider]

Football tickets in general are ridiculously expensive. I can go to nearly 20 A’s games for the price of one Raiders game. And the A’s are good..

[DigInBoys]

2 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I understand.  The tickets are ridiculously expensive, especially for good seats.

Look at highlights of the Chargers Rams game at the coliseum this year, they have fans, including myself.

[DigInBoys]

I'm going to repost this from the News forum when the topic of the Chargers moving came up:

 

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Yes, the NFL in its obsession with money and popularity is going let the Chargers move back to San Diego, reducing the Chargers potential fanbase from 20 million people to 3 million(roughly speaking) where a publicly funded stadium will never happen.

 

The Chargers will never be able to build a fanbase? Tell that to the Clippers who for 30 years were the biggest joke in sports run by the worst ownership ever.

 

There's a reason the Jets, Mets, White Sox etc. have never left despite being the secondary teams.

 

The league and owners(who control the league) will never "force" a team to leave a larger market for a smaller market for the dangerous precedent it would set...for themselves. 

 

You're ignoring the social, political, and most importantly economic facts of the situation.

 

That's just not the way the real world works, especially not with the NFL in the 21st century.

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In an area with 20 million people, that supports 2 pro basketball teams, 3 baseball teams, 2 hockey teams, 2 soccer teams, which was able to support THREE NFL teams 30 years ago(before 2 terrible owners forced their way out of the area), in addition to countless minor and secondary teams, the Chargers won't be able to carve out a fanbase(Counting what they will retain from San Diego) and fill a stadium 8 times a year, got it.

 

No team is going to make more money being a San Diego team than it will an LA team, it's like saying water isn't wet.

 

I mean, that's the whole reason the Chargers moved in the first place..

 

 

 

 

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I'm going to repeat what I said in the Angels thread.

 

The Chargers basically have a market from the Mexican border in the south to Santa Barbara in the North, stretching 230 miles North to South with 20 million people. 

 

20 million people.

 

With a brand new stadium being likened to the Death Star.

 

With the NFL's TV contact, and everything else that comes with being an NFL team.

 

They will not "fail".

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People care about the Clippers, and they were run by the worst owner in history and the biggest joke in sports for 30 years.

 

This isn't a Clippers/Lakers thing, where you've got the most glamorous franchise in the league and the biggest joke in the league sharing the city for decades.

 

The Rams have history, but 20 years is a long time for people to forget things and they were never as successful as the Lakers.

 

That's not even factoring the whole "People can have an NFC team and an AFC team" thing.

 

You've got two basketball teams , two hockey teams, two baseball teams, hell 2 soccer teams all with good fanbases.

 

Chargers just need time.

 

People are judging a move which should be analyzed over decades based on 2 years.

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Does it matter? As long as the money is green it doesn't make a difference to the bottom line.

 

The Chargers accountants aren't sitting there going, "Mr. Spanos, we looked at the books. Even though we've sold out our season tickets even with them being astronomically priced due to the size of Stubhub, it's a total disaster because not as high a proportion of Chargers fans bought tickets".

 

Building a fanbase takes time.

 

If anything, that should tell us that there are probably enough fans of every NFL team in the market to help sell plenty of tickets to fans of opposing teams for the 8 home games a year. They won't be paying with monopoly money.

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Now for the Clippers. The Chargers aren't the Clippers for the reasons I outlined previously but let's say for argument's sake they are.

 

Let's say you guys are right, and I concede that the Chargers are destined to be the football equivalent of the Clippers.

 

That means they are destined to:

 

1. Be one of the 10 most valuable franchises in the league, and one of the most profitable.

 

2. Have a reliable fan base and move plenty of merchandise.

 

3. Be a team who is perennially top 10 in attendance in their good years and still fill over 90% capacity in their down years(looking at the last decade or so)

 

4. Stay in the market and begin planning their own stadium.

 

If that's the logic being applied here for the Chargers having a good chance of LEAVING, then I'd say merely being condescending is quite generous.

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So between the hundreds of millions they would likely lose(NFL G-4 loan for the LA stadium, LA relocation fee, moving costs to LA then San Antonio, overall money invested in LA) plus funding for a stadium in San Antonio when one is being built in LA etc. they would do all that in order to move from the 2nd largest market to the 25th?

 

Makes sense.

[Non-Issue]

2 hours ago, DigInBoys said:

I'm going to repost this from the News forum when the topic of the Chargers moving came up:

 

 

The Chargers value has stagnated. The Rams value has tripled since moving to LA. Hell, they went from the 28th most valuable NFL team to the 6th most valuable NFL team just by saying they were moving to Los Angeles. They are now the 4th most valuable team in the NFL and the 12th most valuable sports team in the world.

Meanwhile the Chargers value hasn't gone up much at all. They're actually upside down now, having spent @ 700 million to move and the value of the team has only risen @ 200 million. And that was in the first year. It didn't go up at all last year. Astoundingly, by Forbes valuation rankings, the Chargers have actually dropped a spot from 21st while in San Diego to 22nd after 2 years in Los Angeles.

There is more money to be made in other markets. Both for the owners of the team and the NFL as a whole.  And it simply doesn't look good for an NFL team to be playing in front of empty seats like the Chargers are (and will be as long as theyre in LA). The Chargers will be leaving LA within 5 years. It is a foregone conclusion.

[Bolts223]

14 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

The Chargers value has stagnated. The Rams value has tripled. The Chargers value hasn't gone up much at all. They're actually upside down now, having spent @ 700 million to move and the value of the team has only risen @ 200 million. And that was in the first year. It didn't go up at all last year. 

There is more money to be made in other markets. Both for the owners of the team and the NFL as a whole.  And it simply doesn't look good for an NFL team to be playing in front of empty seats like the Chargers are. The Chargers will be leaving LA within 5 years. It is a foregone conclusion.

You don't know what you are talking about.

A) Not only is there no incentive for the Chargers to leave, there is also no incentive for Kroenke to let them out of the 20 year lease in the new stadium. He makes money from having extra games in it.

B) Chargers aren't playing in front of empty seats. The Rams actually play in front of far more empty seats if we are going to get technical here. That stadium is always full, its just often filled with fans of the other team. But really the Rams have the same issue, the Packers game was like 60% Packers fans.

C) The Chargers had attendance issues even when they were in San Diego. Games were often getting blacked out and games still got taken over by the opposing team fairly often. None of these things are new to them being in LA. People just notice it more now.