The “Holding” Penalty

[childofpudding]

5 hours ago, DawgX said:

My only problem is the inconsistency with how they're called. There's plenty of times where there's blatant holding that goes uncalled, but other times where minor holding will get called. Just be consistent about it.

That's the same with just about any penalty.

[Buc Ball]

16 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

OPI is a different kind of penalty. You don't commit OPI to prevent something good happening in favor of the opposing team. You do it to get an advantage and attempt to make something good happen for your team. You typically hold to prevent a sack or tackle. You commit DPI to prevent a catch. You commit OPI to make a catch. Different kind of penalty, despite the similar name. The way I see it, there's a few main types. There's penalties a player might commit to prevent something bad from happening (offensive holding, intentional grounding, DPI, etc.) and the penalty is roughly the play that would have occurred. There's penalties that a player/team might commit to gain an unfair advantage (OPI, illegal man downfield, offsides, 12 men, etc.) and the penalty is inherently kind of arbitrary as a result, but the main intent is to eliminate the play that happened. And then there's penalties that are illegal due to safety.

I’d argue OPI is committed fairly frequently to prevent something good happening for the defence. Without looking at the numbers of when it is committed, I agree it’s likely committed more often to help the receiver make a catch, rather than to break up an INT. Good receiver coaches should be coaching their players to take an OPI before allowing an INT though.

It’s a very broad ranging penalty and they could very easily split it into different types (illegal picks, push offs and illegal pass breakups) and penalise them differently. That would put a lot more subjectivity into it for the officials and would be reminiscent of the old face mask rules. 

I don’t think more subjectivity in the rules would be a good thing.

 

[animaltested]

Eh, better to just redefine the current definition of holding to be more lenient.  To balance this shift, be more strict about offensive illegal hands to the face, and make the more abhorrent holds [pulling a pass rusher down or grabbing as they move past] as a spot foul and loss of down, akin to grounding. 

[Thomas5737]

3 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

OPI is a different kind of penalty. You don't commit OPI to prevent something good happening in favor of the opposing team. You do it to get an advantage and attempt to make something good happen for your team. You typically hold to prevent a sack or tackle. You commit DPI to prevent a catch. You commit OPI to make a catch. Different kind of penalty, despite the similar name. The way I see it, there's a few main types. There's penalties a player might commit to prevent something bad from happening (offensive holding, intentional grounding, DPI, etc.) and the penalty is roughly the play that would have occurred. There's penalties that a player/team might commit to gain an unfair advantage (OPI, illegal man downfield, offsides, 12 men, etc.) and the penalty is inherently kind of arbitrary as a result, but the main intent is to eliminate the play that happened. And then there's penalties that are illegal due to safety.

I dunno, hand fighting for position is rarely called OPI, much more often it is called DPI or nothing. I'd also say DPI is called more of when a WR pushes off than OPI is called on those plays. OPI is usually called when the defensive player has position and the receiver is just trying to prevent a big play for the defense. We're talking how many plays per year with OPI? 117 last year (just looked it up) including playoffs with 22 being declined (they were likely all interceptions). So on average there is an OPI called every 5 or 6 games. Pretty rare occurrence. 

[Chiefer]

On 12/6/2018 at 9:04 PM, Sasquatch said:

No.  I just want it less punitive so the penalty matches the crime - like a false start.  If a holding penalty allows a hole that someone can scamper 20 yards - call it - bring the ball back and either make them lose a down or walk em back five yards. It’s painful enough that you lose the 20 yards from the play.

If your crappy asz defensive strategy is to hope you’ll get some offensive holding penalties, then you have bigger problems.

Theyd probably figure in todays NFL you can overcome it. 

[Pugger]

18 hours ago, Buc Ball said:

I’d argue OPI is committed fairly frequently to prevent something good happening for the defence. Without looking at the numbers of when it is committed, I agree it’s likely committed more often to help the receiver make a catch, rather than to break up an INT. Good receiver coaches should be coaching their players to take an OPI before allowing an INT though.

It’s a very broad ranging penalty and they could very easily split it into different types (illegal picks, push offs and illegal pass breakups) and penalise them differently. That would put a lot more subjectivity into it for the officials and would be reminiscent of the old face mask rules. 

I don’t think more subjectivity in the rules would be a good thing.

 

OPI is not being called enough.  A WR really has to be super obvious before it is called.

[AlexGreen#20]

If you're doing this, you have to give something back to the defense. 

Also holding definitely does not happen on every passing play. 

[drew39k]

The holding penalty needs to be steep. If anything make it steeper. The risk reward ratio for holding is skewed to the point that you are better off holding than not. A single hold can spring a running back for a house call or give a qb that extra second to prevent the sack which would have been a loss of yards AND down as opposed to just the loss of yards that the hold provides. As it gets easier to pass in this league those ten yards but keeping the down is a lesser and lesser cost to pay.

[Jakuvious]

21 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I dunno, hand fighting for position is rarely called OPI, much more often it is called DPI or nothing. I'd also say DPI is called more of when a WR pushes off than OPI is called on those plays. OPI is usually called when the defensive player has position and the receiver is just trying to prevent a big play for the defense. We're talking how many plays per year with OPI? 117 last year (just looked it up) including playoffs with 22 being declined (they were likely all interceptions). So on average there is an OPI called every 5 or 6 games. Pretty rare occurrence. 

Nowadays, OPI is called most often on pick plays and routes where receivers are blocking too early.

[Thomas5737]

8 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Nowadays, OPI is called most often on pick plays and routes where receivers are blocking too early.

Well that raises the question, should blocking early even be OPI? Pick plays should be illegal picks and early blocking away from the actual defender defending the receiver should be some sort of illegal blocking procedure. Offensive pass interference should probably only cover interfering with the defender to make a play on the ball. But hey, that's getting away from the original topic, whatever it was.

[3rivers]

On 2018-12-06 at 11:23 PM, footbull3196 said:

Seriously, I’d be ok with them bringing back full bump and run coverage at this point 

agree. Right now it's just unfair because the refs can call anything. This will always be a problem, just part of the game.