jimkelly02 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: This is exactly why I wanted Chaisson in the draft. By not being able to sign Byron Jones we had to draft a CB considering that was such a glaring hole on our roster. I would much rather have Jones and Chaisson over Prince and Arnette. I’m with you but that’s such an unfair comparison .... veteran minimum contract for Prince and Byron Jones got the largest CB contract ever..... a fair comparison is Byron Jones + Chaisson vs Corey Littleton, Malik Collins, Prince, and Arnette.... that kinda changes things a bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, G said: Best thing is I had to look up these two you are talking about and I've never heard of them. Then I was about to click on an article to find out the details and I decided 'WHY'?!? It hadn't mattered in my life up until this moment and giving it my attention and energy is really not necessary and has no bearing on my life. Yet for so many people, what others say/do/think does...I find that interesting...I think I'm the odd one but sometimes maybe I've got that arsebackwards. Nah your right you make a good point... what difference does it make to any of us in our actual lives.... but me... I’m a hater... I enjoy having disdain for people. It’s just my thing lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Look at the the two DEs the Raiders have been connected to one in trade talks on draft day or the day before the draft Yannick and Now FA Clowney. Both are nothing like what the Raiders have and bring in a speed rush that they lack. Definitely think we could see them look at the FA market once final cuts happen for that speedy edge rusher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: I’m with you but that’s such an unfair comparison .... veteran minimum contract for Prince and Byron Jones got the largest CB contract ever..... a fair comparison is Byron Jones + Chaisson vs Corey Littleton, Malik Collins, Prince, and Arnette.... that kinda changes things a bit I was thinking about that and off the top of my head without running the numbers, we could have had Jones for relatively the same price as Mariota, Heath, Witten and Prince. I think we would be in better shape with Jones and Chaisson as opposed to Prince, Arnette, Mariota, Heath and Witten. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: Nah your right you make a good point... what difference does it make to any of us in our actual lives.... but me... I’m a hater... I enjoy having disdain for people. It’s just my thing lol. I'm a mismatcher so when people look for what unites I look for what breaks. LOL So I love that you're a hater. LOL Actually just like honesty and not needing to have everyone agree. Edited July 17, 2020 by G 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I was thinking about that and off the top of my head without running the numbers, we could have had Jones for relatively the same price as Mariota, Heath, Witten and Prince. I think we would be in better shape with Jones and Chaisson as opposed to Prince, Arnette, Mariota, Heath and Witten. What do you think? I think you made the numbers work to prove your point, lol. Im not a huge a fan of the Heath, Witten, Nassib, or Mariota deals to be honest. But besides figuratively trading them all Clowney I couldn’t really find a better way to spend that money. It’s not like we did bad, I’d just have done some things differently: Why sign Heath for 3.6m when we could have resigned Joseph to a better deal then he got in Cleveland and with cap credits it’d only have costed 1.188M? Saves 2.4M+. Id also have cut Gabe Jackson and signed Larry Warford to a 2y, 14M deal, saving 2.5-3.0M’ish. The Mariota deal sounds great in theory but in reality is Carr bombs then we have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.... i don’t think Mariota could lead us to the playoffs. I’d rather have Andy Dalton for 1y, 3.0M (that’s what he got in Dallas) as insurance If Carr got hurt. Btw, Winston and Newtown weren’t going to come here for what they got from their prospective teams. That’s not a real option IMO. Saves 6.125M. Running cap savings of roughly 11.5M.... Nassib costs 7.75.... Clowney could probably be signed for 17M.... there’s a surplus of 2.125M But the big difference is we’re don’t have guarantees on the books for Nassib in ‘21. Im glad we didn’t match Jones deal.... he got more money, especially guaranteed, than I’d be comfortable giving him. I’d rather have Prince and Arnette than Jones, when you consider the costs. Prince for 877.5k cap hit is a better deal than matching Or beating Jones’ deal. Plus, I think Arnette will become a solid CB2 in the NFL. Chaisson is very boom or bust... he’s enticing but I’d rather wait to get that type of player somewhere else. I’m all about being fiscally conservative and getting the team into the playoffs this year and then getting one STUD defender and 1-2 nice pieces for a run in ‘21. I feel that’s always been the teams long term plan, and we need to stick to it and not be short sited. Am I happy with what Mayock did? Absolutely! Could somethings have been done better in my amateur, simpleton opinion? Sure. But what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, G said: I'm a mismatcher so when people look for what unites I look for what breaks. LOL So I love that you're a hater. LOL Actually just like honesty and not needing to have everyone agree. Lol thanks.... I feel like the “Hater” persona comes with growing up a Raider fan... always challenging the norm, not giving a F about what people think or say or what’s expected, having a very good BS meter and not being afraid to tell people their out of their minds, and sticking to what you think is right and not caring if it pisses people off. My motto is be a “equal opportunity hater”! Especially in today’s world... I won’t get political .... trying to follow the rules.... But ya gotta be true to who you are and ignore the mob because they can only get you if you let them.... look at Joey Diaz (comedian with Joe Roger)... they tried to cancel him but he just said FU no.... can’t cave to the mob cuz they always want blood and more blood. You can’t bend what you believe and who you are to please people. If they don’t agree or atleast respect your stance once you’ve articulated it, then there’s no reason to even engage with people....be a “hater”... F’em then! That said,,,, we all don’t need to agree, that’d be equally horrible. “Actually just like honesty and not needing to have everyone agree” You nailed it! Thats exactly what’s wrong with this country these days. Heavens forbid you don’t agree with everything someone says- Nazi! “Literal Nazi!” ..... what happened to civil discourse? What happened to finding common ground and Allowing for differing opinions, hearing the other side out after they’ve heard you and agreeing to disagree sometimes. i don’t get the need of some people to force their opinions on some people.... your entitled to try and sway me towards your side, but once I obviously object .... then it’s time to agree to disagree.... no hard no foul. Just because you disagree on a topic doesn’t mean your in opposition to someone’s wellbeing/happiness/etc.... opinions are like A holes, everyone has one and they all stink! Lol.... (horrible joke i know).... but if your Pro “A” and I’m Pro “B” who cares really.... I don’t need someone’s approval to go to sleep tonight, it ain’t feeding my family and paying bills, etc. And I’m sure it’s noticeable by now but I truly enjoy healthy conflict. That said you also have to know when there is zero point to engage with some people (I’m too hardheaded for this sometimes.... see Jim vs BayRaider debates as proof lmao). Its crazy how gangs in prison are more respectful of others opinions, motives, etc than today’s society... maybe it’s the fact that if your not they’ll smash your face in.... I swear though all 3 races make sure everyone in theirs respects The others.... inmates actually are considerate of each other... example: we all huddle up and make a TV schedule for the day room.... we all compromise and try and make sure every group gets their important shows. I do think people Are so far removed from the fact that when they run their mouth someone might just punch them in the face. People are just too “safe” these days and that causes them to be very disrespectful. Edited July 17, 2020 by jimkelly02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: Lol thanks.... I feel like the “Hater” persona comes with growing up a Raider fan... always challenging the norm, not giving a F about what people think or say or what’s expected, having a very good BS meter and not being afraid to tell people their out of their minds, and sticking to what you think is right and not caring if it pisses people off. My motto is be a “equal opportunity hater”! Especially in today’s world... I won’t get political .... trying to follow the rules.... But ya gotta be true to who you are and ignore the mob because they can only get you if you let them.... look at Joey Diaz (comedian with Joe Roger)... they tried to cancel him but he just said FU no.... can’t cave to the mob cuz they always want blood and more blood. You can’t bend what you believe and who you are to please people. If they don’t agree or atleast respect your stance once you’ve articulated it, then there’s no reason to even engage with people....be a “hater”... F’em then! That said,,,, we all don’t need to agree, that’d be equally horrible. “Actually just like honesty and not needing to have everyone agree” You nailed it! Thats exactly what’s wrong with this country these days. Heavens forbid you don’t agree with everything someone says- Nazi! “Literal Nazi!” ..... what happened to civil discourse? What happened to finding common ground and Allowing for differing opinions, hearing the other side out after they’ve heard you and agreeing to disagree sometimes. i don’t get the need of some people to force their opinions on some people.... your entitled to try and sway me towards your side, but once I obviously object .... then it’s time to agree to disagree.... no hard no foul. Just because you disagree on a topic doesn’t mean your in opposition to someone’s wellbeing/happiness/etc.... opinions are like A holes, everyone has one and they all stink! Lol.... (horrible joke i know).... but if your Pro “A” and I’m Pro “B” who cares really.... I don’t need someone’s approval to go to sleep tonight, it ain’t feeding my family and paying bills, etc. And I’m sure it’s noticeable by now but I truly enjoy healthy conflict. That said you also have to know when there is zero point to engage with some people (I’m too hardheaded for this sometimes.... see Jim vs BayRaider debates as proof lmao). Its crazy how gangs in prison are more respectful of others opinions, motives, etc than today’s society... maybe it’s the fact that if your not they’ll smash your face in.... I swear though all 3 races make sure everyone in theirs respects The others.... inmates actually are considerate of each other... example: we all huddle up and make a TV schedule for the day room.... we all compromise and try and make sure every group gets their important shows. I do think people Are so far removed from the fact that when they run their mouth someone might just punch them in the face. People are just too “safe” these days and that causes them to be very disrespectful. How long have you been on this forum Jim? I really enjoy your take on things and respect your opinion. It seems that you are right that people in prison are more respectful of others opinions than what we see in society today. It's quite remarkable and sad how hard of a stance people take on subjects and refuse to look at the situation with open eyes and want to search for the truth. I try to be like water and know I am not perfect, if someone can refute my point with intellect and facts I will be more than happy to admit I am wrong and will actually be thankful I was thought something I didn't know. I chalk it up to a learning experience. One thing I do know is to never trust the media or social media and question everything. If one can do that they will see with much greater clarity. I as well come here for healthy debates as there are some very intelligent takes on things that I may not see myself. I enjoy that immensely! You know football and there is no BS with you... What you see is what you get and that is great. You clearly do not put on a fake facade to please the masses hahahha. I will say that I know I am right about Carr and he will step it up this year I had to throw that in there for all the Carr haters. I am taking a hard stance on that until I am proven wrong which I am 95 percent confidant I will not be LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: How long have you been on this forum Jim? I really enjoy your take on things and respect your opinion. It seems that you are right that people in prison are more respectful of others opinions than what we see in society today. It's quite remarkable and sad how hard of a stance people take on subjects and refuse to look at the situation with open eyes and want to search for the truth. I try to be like water and know I am not perfect, if someone can refute my point with intellect and facts I will be more than happy to admit I am wrong and will actually be thankful I was thought something I didn't know. I chalk it up to a learning experience. One thing I do know is to never trust the media or social media and question everything. If one can do that they will see with much greater clarity. I as well come here for healthy debates as there are some very intelligent takes on things that I may not see myself. I enjoy that immensely! You know football and there is no BS with you... What you see is what you get and that is great. You clearly do not put on a fake facade to please the masses hahahha. I will say that I know I am right about Carr and he will step it up this year I had to throw that in there for all the Carr haters. I am taking a hard stance on that until I am proven wrong which I am 95 percent confidant I will not be LOL I’ve been on the site for years, initially just read and didn’t post, had a little state sponsored vacation, lost password and re-registered as jimkelly02. I was on KFFL and FIB board dating back to around 1996ish.... geeze I’ve gotten old. I Think you kind of stumbled onto a really, really important topic with your Carr comment. There are absolute facts (things that are universally true, can’t be argued), then there are educated opinions/beliefs (intelligently expressed ideas one has but something someone else could disagree with), and then there are things we just want to believe will happen. And there’s also the grey area between the latter 2. We both want Carr to be a successful QB and the QB of the team for the “future”. Now we can have opinions and Use (or in some cases manipulate) facts, stats, ideas, scenarios, etc that support our opinion. But it’s really what we want to believe. On the other side of things, the “Carr Haters” do the exact same thing but in opposite, as they want to believe Carr should be replaced. Honestly, how could either side prove their point. It’s just something that has to play out. No one really knows how he will do or what will happen. I’ve always been of the belief that Carr should be the QB until he’s failed AND a better option exists. No one ever offers a valid, reasonable better scenario for replacing him. I mean the best thing we heard was BayRaider saying Jordan Love should be drafted at 12 because he could be a HOFer, or whatever hyperbole he felt like saying that day. If Aaron Rodgers was released tonight I’d be the first one demanding we cut/trade Carr and sign Rodgers..... but not any better scenario has been available. (when I say scenario I mean what we get for what we give.... that can be a draft pick for a player or salary cap space to sign a player and so on.... “value proposition”) So yourself and I believe Carr will play well and should stay and there’s a group of other members who think he should have already been moved. Well he’s still here and no one can see the future so all we can do is a BELIEVE he will play well and stay or BELIEVE he will play poorly and be moved. Everything either side uses to substantiate their stance is done to Support what they want to happen. And I’ve spent that last 30 years of my life (36 years old now) convincing myself “THIS will be the year”.... heck all I had to look forward to was the draft and offseason/preseason for most of that time.... What’s another year of being a blissful idiot and thinking “this might be the year”, heck it’s all I know at this point, lol. Carr’s success is linked to that. I honestly wouldn’t know how else to act and think. In all seriousness..... like seriously serious, for real- for real.... this “could be the year” tho.... I mean it! (LoL) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: I’m all about being fiscally conservative and getting the team into the playoffs this year and then getting one STUD defender and 1-2 nice pieces for a run in ‘21. I feel that’s always been the teams long term plan, and we need to stick to it and not be short sited. Am I happy with what Mayock did? Absolutely! Could somethings have been done better in my amateur, simpleton opinion? Sure. But what do I know? Agree wholeheartedly with the above, this is the year to get to base camp. We have so many moving parts that its going to take a year to assess the changes we've made, who that we've brought in are medium to long term options and who simply are one and done. We'll know where our weaknesses are and hopefully will be set up to make a small number of high quality acquisitions to make the push for the summit next year. We can all nit pick every move and of course there's things we probably all would do slightly differently but overall I'd tend to agree that Mayock has done pretty well so far, the only blight being the AB fiasco really and in fairness Mayock went above and beyond in his fairness of treatment and probably accorded Brown too much respect. He handled the situation professionally and with dignity, Mayock seems like a good guy to have at the head of the organisation both from an integrity and talent perspective though its still early for the draft classes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: I’ve been on the site for years, initially just read and didn’t post, had a little state sponsored vacation, lost password and re-registered as jimkelly02. I was on KFFL and FIB board dating back to around 1996ish.... geeze I’ve gotten old. I Think you kind of stumbled onto a really, really important topic with your Carr comment. There are absolute facts (things that are universally true, can’t be argued), then there are educated opinions/beliefs (intelligently expressed ideas one has but something someone else could disagree with), and then there are things we just want to believe will happen. And there’s also the grey area between the latter 2. We both want Carr to be a successful QB and the QB of the team for the “future”. Now we can have opinions and Use (or in some cases manipulate) facts, stats, ideas, scenarios, etc that support our opinion. But it’s really what we want to believe. On the other side of things, the “Carr Haters” do the exact same thing but in opposite, as they want to believe Carr should be replaced. Honestly, how could either side prove their point. It’s just something that has to play out. No one really knows how he will do or what will happen. I’ve always been of the belief that Carr should be the QB until he’s failed AND a better option exists. No one ever offers a valid, reasonable better scenario for replacing him. I mean the best thing we heard was BayRaider saying Jordan Love should be drafted at 12 because he could be a HOFer, or whatever hyperbole he felt like saying that day. If Aaron Rodgers was released tonight I’d be the first one demanding we cut/trade Carr and sign Rodgers..... but not any better scenario has been available. (when I say scenario I mean what we get for what we give.... that can be a draft pick for a player or salary cap space to sign a player and so on.... “value proposition”) So yourself and I believe Carr will play well and should stay and there’s a group of other members who think he should have already been moved. Well he’s still here and no one can see the future so all we can do is a BELIEVE he will play well and stay or BELIEVE he will play poorly and be moved. Everything either side uses to substantiate their stance is done to Support what they want to happen. And I’ve spent that last 30 years of my life (36 years old now) convincing myself “THIS will be the year”.... heck all I had to look forward to was the draft and offseason/preseason for most of that time.... What’s another year of being a blissful idiot and thinking “this might be the year”, heck it’s all I know at this point, lol. Carr’s success is linked to that. I honestly wouldn’t know how else to act and think. In all seriousness..... like seriously serious, for real- for real.... this “could be the year” tho.... I mean it! (LoL) A few things. Yes we all want to believe and want what's right for our franchise. I agree that Carr should be our Qb until he has proven otherwise and so far he has played very well considering the circumstances which include constant coaching turnover and lack of talent on either side of the ball. Considering how dysfunctional of an organization we have been and how bad his supporting cast has been, he has played remarkably well. He needs to step it up this year with the upgrade in talent on both sides of the ball and I fully expect him to get better as we get deeper into the season and he builds chemistry with the new talent. I have no way to say with certainty (although I am 95 percent confidant he will play very well) if Carr will ball out but I have to admit I have taken a hard stance on many things before and have been proven right. Cooper being a soft fraud of an elite #1, the Mack trade being a good thing for the franchise, DHB being an absolute bum, Russell being a fat/lazy slob, the Richard Seymor trade being a bad idea bc the team was no where near being a contender and trading a 1st for a 31 year old non difference maker was not smart. The list goes on and on.... Some people on here have posted solutions regarding Carr, yes they have been bone headed thoughts but they think it's what would be best or the franchise. Trade or cut Carr only to sign the likes of Ol' crab legs, Foles, Fitztrash, Taylor etc. Trade multiple picks for the Tua lol and mortgage our future for an unproven commodity who played on a semi pro team in college. People who think that those are good moves clearly do not understand football. Getting rid of a 29 year old QB who has played well in the face of adversity for career journeyman and castoffs is a sure fire way to get fired as a GM. You don't cut bait with a QB like Carr until you know what you have for certain and there is no way to to know until you surround him with talent. This will be a telling season and I am excited for the year to start so I can be proven right once again. As far as Rogers goes, I would in no way cut or trade Carr to sign a 36 year old Rogers who looked like he is on the downside of his career last two seasons. Rogers mobility is a fraction of what it once was and he is in no way a significant upgrade over Carr especially considering the 7 year age gap. I would go with Carr all day long there. Now if you were to throw Russell Wilson in the mix then I would listen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonKennedy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 On 2020-07-14 at 12:19 PM, Humble_Beast said: I always feel a connection with people who I see usually don’t make it, and beat the odds and shine to another level. Naya symbolized excellence! Alot of people of the culture get looked over and have to just stay in a certain lane. The industry is shady. Maybe it’s a bias talking here..... She also Looked so beautiful wearing silver and black. Atleast her son will pass on her legacy Hell.... is there any woman who doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 One is not like the others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 12:47 PM, jimkelly02 said: That’s simply not true. in order to give him that contract you have to restructure someone (Trent Brown most likely) And lower his ‘20 cap hit and in doing so increase his future cap hits. We have 8+M in cap space and Clowney will cost 16-18M.... no matter how you do it your pulling money from ‘21 and beyond to pay for Clowney this year. and even if you get your dream and Carrs gone, Mariota or someone else will cost the same or more. Your right about the above, wrong about my dream, my dream is Carr play's like he use to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: One is not like the others... Rico Gafford one of the fastest WR's in the league but we couldn't find a way to get him the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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